Sunday, March 10, 2013

Interview with Veronique Renard

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Born in Jutphaas, the Netherlands, on May 26, 1965, Véronique Françoise Caroline Renard is a woman of many layers, each as colorful and compelling as her art and words. A celebrated Dutch author and visual artist, Véronique is also known by the name Pantau (or Phentok), meaning "to be helpful" or "beneficial," a spiritual gift she received during a transformative audience with the Dalai Lama in Dharamsala, India, in 2000. As serendipitous as a Taoist peach, pantao, the legendary fruit of immortality, her chosen name reflects the deep compassion and mystical flavor that runs through her work and life. Véronique’s journey as a woman began with remarkable courage and clarity. In 1982, at the age of 17, she transitioned with the support of her family, friends, and hometown community. Inspired by the story of British model Caroline Cossey, she found the words to describe her own experience and sought guidance.
 
Diagnosed with Klinefelter’s syndrome (XXY), she began hormone therapy soon after, and completed her transition 18 months later in 1984, making her one of the first 150 people to undergo gender reassignment surgery in the Netherlands. Her mother lovingly chose her name, and Véronique added Françoise and Caroline to honor her best friend and the trans woman who helped spark her self-discovery. An explorer of the soul and a seeker of meaning, Véronique’s creative path has taken her across continents and cultures. Her life blends artistry with activism, spirituality with storytelling. Whether through a brushstroke, a memoir, or a moment of stillness, she offers a rare and radiant perspective, born from transformation, resilience, and deep inner truth.
 
Monika: Hello Veronique! It has always been my dream to have a conversation with you and share your story!
Veronique: Namaste, Monika. Thank you so much for reaching out to me. I hope my contribution to your website will be helpful to many people. I’m honored to be included and to share a part of my journey with your readers.
Monika: What kinds of creative or professional projects are you currently working on these days?
Veronique: I am still working on my next novel, Comrades of the Cut Sleeve, a story about a closeted gay Chinese military general who is in the process of liberating himself. These days, all my books are about how to find happiness, enlightenment, I suppose. I’ve also been revisiting some of my earlier work to see how my voice has evolved over time.
Monika: You are one of the rare individuals who have met the Dalai Lama in person. What kind of impact did that experience have on your life and personal journey?
Veronique: Meeting him the first time was very interesting. However, he didn’t mean that much to me at that time, I kind of accidentally met him. I still feel embarrassed that I just shook hands with him like most other Westerners tend to do. However, meeting him the last time (seven years later) was phenomenal! After living close to him for 7 years in the Indian Himalayas, he was the man who helped me to accept myself as a Pholomolo, the Tibetan word for transsexual. This time I prostrated myself in front of him, the way Tibetans greet him. He enjoys Westerners who pick up Tibetan manners and customs. I lived with the Tibetans and Indians for 7 years. I ate their food and drank their water. And after a few years, I felt I became more and more Tibetan. It was through that immersion and his presence that I began to feel truly at peace with who I was.

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2003/4 near her hut in Varkala.

Monika: Is your trilogy The Tibetan Freedom Struggle a direct reflection of your meeting with the Dalai Lama and your experiences in the Tibetan community?
Veronique: Yes. I was travelling through India in the spring of 2000 to find a cure to my depression. I accidentally stumbled upon the Tibetan refugee community in the north Indian Himalayas. The Dalai Lama fled to India in 1959 and lived in Dharamsala ever since. I didn’t return home to Holland but rented a room opposite the Dalai Lama’s monastery between 2000 and 2007.
I heard so many stories from refugee friends that I thought I should somehow get those stories across to concerned people in the world. I thought I should use my skills as a novelist to write books about the Tibetans. My memoir Pantau in India became a best-seller in the Netherlands, but my follow-up trans-memoir Pholomolo was only published in English in the USA.
Pholomolo is a Tibetan word, but it’s a different type of freedom struggle. Although Pholomolo doesn’t sell as many copies as Harry Potter, the book has become some sort of cult-book, read by people all over the world. It continues to find new readers who resonate with its message of self-discovery and resilience.
Monika: After immersing yourself in Tibetan culture, history, and its current political reality, do you believe Tibet still has a chance to achieve independence or meaningful self-governance?
Veronique: I actually agree with the Dalai Lama on this. He doesn’t strive for independence, but autonomy, genuine autonomy inside the Tibetan Autonomous Region. I think this would actually work out well for both the Chinese and the Tibetans. So my message to Beijing would not be: Free Tibet, but Respect Tibet. Respecting Tibet’s culture and spiritual traditions is key to a peaceful coexistence.
Monika: As a practicing Buddhist, how do you perceive Buddhism’s view on transgender individuals, especially in relation to identity and spirituality?
Veronique: The Tibetan Buddhists call us pholomolos. Pho means male, Mo means female, and Lo means no—so, not man, not woman. I liked that idea. Since the Tibetans explained to me the phenomenon of transsexualism, I started to feel a lot of self-worth. They think we are special, holy, half-god-like. It’s almost a joy to introduce myself to Tibetans and Indians as a transsexual! Buddhism doesn’t have much to say on this particular matter.
Buddhism is all about finding Nirvana, enlightenment, and everybody has the right to follow the path of the Buddha, including transsexuals, so there is no religious discrimination toward us. In Asia, people often turn to half-man-half-woman figures to receive their blessings for good luck. Transsexualism is a totally different thing in Asia. They are the shamans, the holy people, the priests, those figures who find their place somewhere between the gods and the human people. We are everything; both man and woman, human and god in one body. That sacred duality is seen not as a burden, but as a spiritual gift.

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At the Tibetan Children's Village in Dharamsala, India in 2003.

Monika: Have you ever faced workplace discrimination because of your transgender identity, especially during your transition from corporate life to creative work?
Veronique: Not as a writer (I hope). But as an office worker during my previous career, continuously. It would sometimes take months before one or two colleagues figured out I might be transsexual.
Recent studies showed that 48 percent of Dutch people would feel uncomfortable being in the presence of a transsexual person. I used to work for large corporations, so as soon as people found out, hundreds of people started to feel uncomfortable being in the presence of me; their office manager. So I had many, many short-term contracts with large corporations and never left a company on friendly terms. After 16 years I was fed up with being fired from great jobs, just because my colleagues felt uncomfortable with me. I can now understand why so many transsexuals end up as prostitutes, as second-class citizens, living in a box.
For 12 years I have been self-employed as a writer and artist (I make jolly nice paintings too!). I am not making as much money as I used to as an office manager, but I never get discriminated anymore by an employer. I’ve traded financial stability for emotional peace—and that has made all the difference.
Monika: Could you share your thoughts on why there seems to be so much more hatred toward transgender women compared to transgender men? Do you think there's a specific reason behind this stronger prejudice?
Veronique: We’re different, mysterious, unique. There are very few of us. It’s a natural thing. Mother birds and siblings kill the weaker or abnormal brother or sister and throw them out of the nest. I think that is what is happening to us when we trans girls and gay boys get bullied at school, banned from toilets, ignored, separated, excluded, discriminated by society.
It’s easier to beat up a fairy or woman with a wig than a transman with muscles. A transman is a man after all. Nobody wants trouble with a man. Also, there is much jealousy. Transwomen are sometimes so beautiful that women get jealous. I see that a lot in Thailand. Women admire and hate them for their beauty, and they hate transsexuals because men love them so much. In many societies, trans women are often seen as a threat to traditional gender roles, which only deepens this animosity.

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On the beach near Venice with her
second fiance in the early 1980s.

Monika: In your autobiographical book titled Pholomolo – No Man No Woman, do you personally identify with the concept of being “no man, no woman”? How has this self-perception evolved over time?
Veronique: Not when I was young. I just thought of myself as female. Always. I only started to develop that feeling in 2000, when I immigrated to Asia, after learning more about Asian transsexuals. When I drive a jeep across the highest mountain passes in the Himalayas, it’s not the girl who is steering the car, it’s the boy inside me. This boy is gay, but he is a masculine macho guy who dares to steer a jeep across a mountain. The girl inside me is present most of the time, I would say 80% of the time. It depends on what I need to accomplish. I am a woman, but inside me are two people, a feminine woman and a masculine man. Living in Asia gave me the freedom to embrace both sides without shame or confusion.
Monika: You have lived in countries such as the Netherlands, India, Thailand, and China. Based on your experiences, how would you compare the current situation of transgender women in these different cultural contexts?
Veronique: In some ways better than in the West, in other ways not. In Thailand, transsexuals are totally accepted by society, however, they can’t change their gender and name on their ID cards. In 1985 I already had Female in my passport and birth certificate, but the Dutch society still doesn’t accept me. In India, transsexuals are called Hijras and are totally different from all other transsexuals. They are half-gods and act as priests to bless wedding couples and newborn babies. So it’s all very different from Western cultures. I think transsexuals have fewer problems in Asia than effeminate gay men.
Generally, transsexuals in Asia are admired and many have celebrity status. In Thailand, many effeminate gay boys decide to have a sex change in order to feel admired and accepted. Parents prefer a trans child over a gay child. It’s also a way out of poverty. Transsexuals have many advantages and skills to make good money. But even in Asia, behind the admiration, legal protections and equal rights still lag behind.
Monika: In recent years, more transgender women in the United States have gained visibility and even celebrity status, such as Lana Wachowski in film, Jenna Talackova in modeling, Kate Bornstein in academia, Laura Jane Grace in music, and Candis Cayne in acting. Are you observing similar trends of increased transgender visibility and representation in countries like the Netherlands, Thailand, and China?
Veronique: In Thailand, transsexualism is a part of the culture, so each show on Thai TV has at least one transsexual or a man with lipstick and a skirt in it. In the Netherlands, it appears that only very recently have they started to put transsexual people in front of TV cameras. It’s a very new thing for the Dutch, but there is still a long way to go before the Dutch are okay with transsexuals. In the Netherlands, I still don’t speak about my transsexualism to new people I meet. In Thailand, it’s often part of my introduction. I still feel I need to hide my transsexualism in the West, but I can celebrate my uniqueness in Asia. In China, visibility is growing very slowly and cautiously, with more online presence than mainstream media support. But it’s still better than Uganda!

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As a natural blonde, I found it interesting
to dye my hair black. I regretted it
later when trying to make it blond
again. I had short hair for years.

Monika: Can you tell me about where you grew up and how your upbringing influenced your journey?
Veronique: I grew up in a small farming village in the Netherlands. Those God-fearing people there talked about tractors, hayforks, and cows. I moved to India at 34 (where I developed wisdom and found happiness). I moved to Thailand at 41 where I married and found a new kind of happiness. Looking back, I realize that leaving that conservative village was the first step toward becoming my true self.


END OF PART 1

 
All the photos: courtesy of Veronique Renard.
© 2013 - Monika Kowalska


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