Monika: The lovely city of Cork in Ireland is the home of my today’s guest. Sara-Jane Cromwell is an Irish groundbreaking author and educator, trainer, mentor, and life coach on Gender Identity and Gender Dysphoria. She is also an inspirational figure for people going through many of life’s difficulties. She is the author of "Becoming Myself: The True Story of Thomas Who Became Sara" (2008), "Wrong Body, Wrong Life: Living with Gender Identity Disorder in Ireland" (2010), and "No Ordinary Life" (2021). Hello Sara-Jane!
Sara-Jane: Hello Monika. Thank you for having me.
Monika: You grew up in Ballyfermot, a suburb of Dublin in the 1960s, in a very conservative environment where you're being different was not tolerated at all. The readers may not believe it but you were regarded as "retarded" because you were left-handed…
Sara-Jane:
Yes, Monika, unfortunately, all that is true and it caused me huge trauma, which still profoundly affects my life to the present day. Being left-handed in the 60s and 70s was truly terrible and along with being treated as retarded exposed me to frequent bullying and abuse, including beatings at home, in school and while out and about; and a great deal of name calling and rejection.
Monika: Your "girlie tendencies" contributed to your total isolation among your peers too.
Sara-Jane:
Again, this is sadly true. I was regarded as an attention seeker and too emotional. I was considered strange because I preferred the company of other girls to play with. Of course that was not the norm back then; so despite my best efforts to conform, I found it impossible to form any close bonds of friendship, which remained the case well into my adult life. I have always regarded this as one of the greatest losses of my life and added hugely to my feeling lonely and unwanted by others.
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| "I was regarded as an attention seeker and too emotional." |
Sara-Jane:
Regrettably no, as is all too apparent in my book No Ordinary Life. They were my chief abusers. They were followed by my siblings. They subjected me to physical, mental and emotional, and yes, even financial abuse. And some of this continued up to 2008 after my first book was published; some of which is recounted in my latest book.
Monika: How did you manage to get out of this toxic environment?
Sara-Jane:
It took me far too long to move on from them. I did try when I was just 16 years of age; sadly it was my first attempt to commit suicide by jumping off the local canal bridge. But I stopped myself and decided to try to leave home instead. And strangely enough, under those incredibly emotional and distressing circumstances, I decided I would try to change my name, as a way of disassociating myself from them.
Alas, it was to be another three years before I eventually left home. But that did not prevent me from going back again and again in the vain hope that they would somehow have a change of heart and finally love and accept me. On the contrary, despite several failed attempts to reconcile with them, they proved themselves to be utterly duplicitous, causing me to have no further contact with them; and this has remained the case ever since. This finally came about after I disclosed my gender dysphoria. Some let on to being supportive for a while but that soon fizzled out.
Monika: What was Ireland like at that time in terms of medical services (HRT, FFS, GRS) provided to transgender women?
Sara-Jane:
They were completely non-existent over those decades, and only became available in the late 90s and early 2000s on an extremely limited basis. I have to say at this point that I do not like any of the trans terms. I have only ever seen myself as Sara-Jane Cromwell, FEMALE. I only referred to myself as transgendered until I was diagnosed as gender dysphoric in 2003, and ceased referring to myself as gender dysphoric on completing my transition and receiving my new birth certificate in 2015.
Monika: And the transgender community in Dublin? Was it possible to socialise with other transgender women?
Sara-Jane:
I lived in Cork the entire time I transitioned, but I did socialise when I was staying over in Dublin while on official TENI and GIDI business, and staying with a former friend. Regrettably, my overall experience with transgendered women was negative. But suffice it to say, for reasons I won’t go into here, I was bullied and traumatised on several occasions by a significant number of transgendered women, and activists, which still affects me to this day.
Monika: Why did you choose Sara-Jane for your name?
Sara-Jane:
I was going to choose a different name, but my then-partner told me it didn’t suit me; that I was more like a Sarah. I also wanted to have a second name and thought of how this would go with my newly chosen surname ’Cromwell’. I visioned my name as an author and speaker and how it would appear in publications etc. Sara-Jane Cromwell was the only perfect fit, encapsulating as it does my nature, character and vast life experience, and specific people who have influenced my life and my decision to change my surname, especially one of my historical heroes Oliver Cromwell, with whom I identified in a number of important respects.
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| "I really do not wish to be referred to as a transgender woman." |
Sara-Jane:
Dealing with trans people was by far my most negative experience, despite the fact that I was making their lives so much better by the work I was doing on their behalf.
The other price I paid was financial as I had prioritised my work on gender identity related activities over earning a decent living. This was over many years. The pay-off was to help transform the way all strata of Irish society came to understand many of the issues affecting people struggling with their gender identity, including access to healthcare and the introduction of the Gender Recognition Act, 2015 and my groundbreaking work in other areas such as UCC, etc.
Monika: We are said to be prisoners of passing or non-passing syndrome. Although cosmetic surgeries help to overcome it, we will always be judged accordingly. How can we cope with this?
Sara-Jane:
I’ve never heard of those terms. What I will say is that I do not believe these and the ever-growing lexicon of trans terms, appropriation and misappropriation of language is helping in people’s understandings of gender identity issues. On the contrary, I believe they are making the situation significantly worse and causing, many, including trans allies, to be afraid and to pull back from engaging with the issue. That’s the first thing.
The second thing is that there are only so many changes we can make in our external appearance. In this regard we cannot control how other people perceive us and how they interact with us; we may influence it to a certain degree, but not control it. What we can do is, self-regulate and stay close and true to what we know ourselves to be and live our lives accordingly. We can also exercise common sense and not make things any more difficult than need to be. I know a lot of trans people who unnecessarily attract negative attention precisely because of their own negative attitudes and behaviours. However, this is also true of people within the wider society (we are not the exception in this regard).
Thirdly, from everything I have observed and experienced thus far, the use of language, personal appearance and behaviour, often go together in influencing how others see and react towards us. Too often we complain about how others behave rather than focusing on how WE can influence and encourage them to interact with us, which is altogether more positive and productive. We have a responsibility for how we live and behave in the world. We have no more of a divine right to be accepted than anyone else, desirous though it may be.
Monika: Do you remember the first time you saw a transgender woman on TV or met anyone transgender in person?
Sara-Jane:
Sadly yes, it was on American TV, Jerry Springer and other such shows. They were presented as and behaved like attention-seeking, narcissistic freaks, most of whom clearly had some form of mental or psychological disturbance. They were a laughing stock and not taken remotely seriously. They were viewed as extreme versions of transvesitites and crossdressers and subject to all manner of ridicule. It barely got any better over the following years. This was the background against which I went public in 2004.
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| "My life and activities have always been multi-varied throughout my transition journey." |
Sara-Jane:
There was a very limited number, two or three at most, mostly non-Irish and for the most part very negative. There were others who appeared in the tabloid papers with their faces covered, their names changed and stories of how terrible their lives were. None of them really engaged nor left people informed on what it actually meant to be gender dysphoric and why securing our rights was so important. And so the wider community was unable to understand or properly engage with them. I observed all they said and did, then did the exact opposite. And by doing so founded two organisations and opened many of the doors that helped bring us to where we are today, which is a much better place.
Monika: You wrote three books about your transition and life as a transgender woman. Which aspects of your transition could be of interest to other transgender women?
Sara-Jane:
I really do not wish to be referred to as a transgender woman. I am not alone in this. The vast majority of gender dysphoric women and men I have met over the years resent, and are hurt by the trans terms being applied to them. They prefer to be known only by their male and female gender. That’s the first thing.
The second thing is: how we are referred to does affect the wider community’s perceptions, attitudes and behaviours towards us.
Whether we like it or not, the language matters greatly, especially given the present morass of confusion around the never-ending additions to the lexicon and the use of umbrella terms such as ’trans’ ’transgender’ ’trans people’ etc.; especially given that everything including the kitchen sink is included under these terms. This is causing far more confusion and damage than the trans community realises or is willing to acknowledge. This is not helped by the ever-growing intolerance, misappropriation of language, histories etc., and growing fascist-like cancel culture within the trans community and among trans activists in particular. There is a very real and growing backlash because of this and for that reason more and more trans allies are withdrawing support while many academics are in retreat; and no wonder when they see what is happening to their colleagues and activists like me (once regarded as a leading authority in this area).
It is against this backdrop that many transgendered women and men are transitioning. I suggest they stick to only those things that help them communicate effectively about their situation and needs to others, and in a language and manner that is more likely to garner their understanding and support. This is precisely what I did and why I had such a hugely successful transition overall. I could say more on this and other questions here but time and space do not permit it.
Monika: What do you think about the present situation of transgender women in your country?
Sara-Jane:
Bearing in mind what I am comparing this present time to, and notwithstanding the need for greater access to healthcare and some families and some within the wider community who are unsupportive, it is still far better than they (transgender women) are prepared to acknowledge, and when they do, they do so grudgingly. This is not lost on their families, friends, allies, and the wider public. I was always optimistic about how Irish people would respond when they were properly informed about gender identity issues, and on the whole, they have not disappointed me.
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| "I was always optimistic about how Irish people would respond when they were properly informed about gender identity issues." |
Monika: Do you remember your first job interview as a woman?
Sara-Jane:
I am self-employed, so I had to tell all my clients at the time. I was overwhelmingly accepted and respected and was able to do my job with minimum disruption. I have no doubt that I lost a very small number of clients, but overall I have not had any problems worth mentioning. The overall experience was quite positive.
Monika: What would you advise to all transwomen looking for employment?
Sara-Jane:
That is a very big question, but if I am to give advice in this limited time and space I would say, that notwithstanding that we have strong and well-tested equality legislation here in Ireland, it is important to be realistic and pragmatic when applying for jobs. I think it is important to distinguish between how things ought to be and how they actually are.
In this regard, I would suggest that people properly research their prospective employer’s organisations to see if they are LGBTQ diverse, and if possible, speak to employees from those organisations about their experiences. This can help prospective candidates make more informed decisions about whether they wish to proceed or seek employment elsewhere. It can also contribute to a more comfortable interview when the opportunity arises.
There may be those who will scoff at this and take a more militant approach. That is for them to decide whether they wish to turn their job searching and interviews into a cause and to fight it. My view is: why would you want to work for such an organisation; surely it is better to work for an organisation that supports LGBTQ diversity?
Monika: Are you involved in the life of the local LGBTQ community?
Sara-Jane:
Not anymore. I have spent the last twenty years being involved and at a huge personal cost. Also, I find it increasingly toxic and intolerant (even of its own). Being bullied and traumatised several times, and more recently in the past two years; and being written out of my own history have also contributed significantly to my decision to step away.
Monika: Could you tell me about the importance of love in your life?
Sara-Jane:
That is another very big question and a very difficult one for me after having to leave a very abusive and traumatising relationship within the past few months. But I will say, that overall I still believe in love, and that remains hugely important to me. Because of this I won’t give up entirely, choosing instead to believe that it is possible to find my soulmate, but I will not be looking for one for the foreseeable future.
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| "I have spent the last twenty years being involved and at a huge personal cost." |
Monika: What would you recommend to all transgender women that are afraid of transition?
Sara-Jane:
I have always tried to live by the conviction that we must be true to ourselves, regardless of the cost. This is no less true of whether we choose to transition. For me, being true to myself is about being authentic and congruent. These are not always easy and can test us to our very limits, and beyond. But there simply isn’t anything to compare with waking up every day and experiencing life in all its vagaries and uncertainties, all its cruelties and kindnesses, all its failures and successes, as our true selves whether it be internally or physically. There is simply no feeling in the world quite like it.
Monika: My pen-friend Gina Grahame wrote to me once that we should not limit our potential because of how we were born or by what we see other transgender people doing. Our dreams should not end on an operating table; that’s where they begin. Do you agree with this?
Sara-Jane:
That is a very loaded idea that can be interpreted in different ways, but I will try. Having observed so many people over the years, and given my own extraordinary life to date, I have never allowed my gender identity and my gender journey to be the sole or even the primary arbiter of how I choose to live, and how I try to make the positive difference I wish to make in the world.
My life and activities have always been multi-varied throughout my transition journey and I have never limited my vision or my social interactions because of it. On the contrary, I have always lived and been welcomed within society as a whole, where I continue to strive in doing the greatest good. I encourage others to do the same. Our lives and vision should not be limited to our gender identity but rather should be based upon us in all our rounded wholeness, character, abilities, and qualities as human beings.
Monika: Sara-Jane, it was a pleasure to interview you. Thanks a lot!
Sara-Jane:
Thank you, Monika, you are very welcome.
All the photos: courtesy of Sara-Jane Cromwell.
© 2023 - Monika Kowalska
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