Interview with Alessandra Bernaroli - Part 2

Monika: What do you think about the present situation of transgender women in Italian society?

Alessandra: The present situation of transsexual women, but unfortunately of all LGBTI people too, is not a happy one! There is no law protecting us from ignorance and prejudice, apart from an anti-discrimination labour law that originates from the European directive 2000/78/CE (and apart from the sex change law of 1982 that is no longer adequate nowadays).

In addition, there is a hostile social and political leaning towards transsexual community (in fact, against the whole LGBTI community). I’m not able to really understand from what this blind hatred arises from; maybe just from ignorance, or perhaps it is the convenient scapegoat of a society that is devoid of plan for its future. 

Nowadays I don’t see scope for future improvement. Politics is blocked in austerity and our people place all hopes in judges and court. This is a solution for the single case, but in order to build a society we need acceptance (of culture of difference, of various gender expressions), recognition (by fair and equal laws) and also promotion of positive images of transsexual and LGBTI roles, so they are as good as the WASP heterosexual role models.

Monika: Could transgenderism be the new frontier for human rights?

Alessandra: Yes, I think that at present homosexual rights have been well understood by society and day by day more and more countries have an inclusive legislation that equals hetero and LGB people.

In the meantime, transsexual and intersexual people are, at best, only half a way from equality. Probably the problem is in the different nature of transsexualism versus homosexuality. The fact is that homosexuality refers only to sexual preference, so it leads to the so-called “heterosexual paradigm”; for example, that men should just sexually desire women and vice versa. This (wrong) belief now is clearly outdated (I mean, generally in the world, but it’s not like this in Italy, for instance) and came from the need of sexual reproduction.

In a park.

Transsexualism, instead, does not relate to sex but to the more complex concept of “gender”, which is the conviction that there are only two biological sexes, and they are different in their “very essence”, so it isn’t possible to be of one sex in a moment and of another sex in another moment (or both).

One consequence of this point of view is that some people think there are only two possible gender roles and expressions in nature; to be precise this fact is not directly correlated with transsexualism, instead with the freedom of gender expression.

Having said this, we can see that the battle for transsexual rights is also a battle for power, because when you say that women and men are at the same level and are made of the same essence, you cannot justify anymore women’s exclusion from social life and leadership.
In a way, it seems to me that the battle for transsexual civil rights is similar to the battle that African American people fought for equality in the United States after the Second World War. Definitely such activists like Martin Luther King and Malcom X are the source of inspiration for me.

Monika: A few months ago Jared Leto received his Oscar for Best Supporting Actor for his role in "Dallas Buyers Club" as transgender Rayon. What do you think about transgender stories or characters which have been featured in films, newspapers, or books so far?

Alessandra: Well, generally speaking I think that so far transgender stories have often been based on two approaches: marginalization tale or queer-style stories. Essentially it seems to me that the transsexual character has been seen like a complicated/problematic person with difficulties; a person that is not able to integrate in a social context due to different social claims. The only salvation has been to find out a place, a sort of reservation, in which they can live their lives as good as possible.

So, in brief, I have seen conventional tales. I’d like to see stories of success in education, work, politics and generally in society, life, and relationships, which is never too easy.

Monika: The transgender cause is usually manifested together with the other LGBT communities. Being the last letter in this abbreviation, is the transgender community able to promote its own cause within the LGBT group?

Alessandra: Transgender is a term that I don’t like to use, because in my opinion it’s too vague and, after all, doubtful. I prefer to use transsexual and intersex. I don’t know how it is in the rest of the world but in Italy the so-called “trans community” was too politically oriented and not numerous enough to be visible.

Certainly, the number of transsexual people that wish to come out from stealth and stand in a battle for civil rights is not higher, but this couldn’t even be a problem. The matter is that L-G claims are not the same as T claims; in the first case they are mainly related to marriage, adoption, and homophobia, whereas T claims are connected with: access to medical care; standards of care (even in childhood), public support and counselling; legal matters regarding civil status, name change, sex indication; document change process; discrimination at work and at school; discrimination in family, social discrimination and transphobia. So, in my opinion, there are too many differences.

Work convention.

Monika: How strong is the transgender movement in Italy?

Alessandra: I'm used to judging the work of organization not by their manifestos and agendas but by the achieved results. So, from my point of view, in Italy the promotion of transgender rights started well long ago, in 1982, with the sex change law (at that time it was the third in Europe, after Sweden in 1972 and Germany in 1980).

However, the law was more the product of far-sighted politics than the pressure of an organized trans movement (that, as a matter of fact, it wasn’t even born at that time) and, moreover, since then there has not been any progress (with the exception of the implementation of international standards of care, which changed the worst Italian standards of care, but unfortunately only in few hospitals) despite the great fuss of the trans organizations.

And secondly, since then there has not been any progress (with the exception of the implementation of international standards of care, which changed the worst Italian standards of care, but unfortunately only in few hospitals) despite the great fuss of the trans organizations.

At present it seems to me that the Italian trans movement doesn’t have too much influence on politics and decision-makers; there is no lobbying for trans people. As I said, maybe that movement, despite lobbying independently, tried to search for support from a specific political party and this was a great error. Perhaps better qualifications of such activists would be more beneficial and helpful too. For this reason, I thought that these days the legal solutions could be more effective in Italy in my battle for civil rights.

Monika: Are you active in politics? Do you participate in any lobbying campaigns? Do you think transgender women can make a difference in politics?

Alessandra: Some time ago I tried to approach politics, but I wasn’t able to find the right occasion. I find so little interest in the topics I care about. These days the Italian politics is not held in high esteem by the citizens, so I think it is better not to have to deal with it.

I’m a member of “Rete Lenford”, which is an organization for social advancement. As a result, I took part, amongst other things, in the formulation of a parliamentary bill on civil and transgender rights, which was proposed in this present (XVII) legislature. Moreover, Rete Lenford organizes many meetings, discussions and events on LGBTI issues.

As for transgender women in politics, I’m not sure about whether they would be able to make a difference if they were elected members of parliament. In Italy, some years ago, we had a would-be transgender person, but I cannot say whether this fact has improved our rights; as a matter of fact, I don’t think so.

The point is that in politics, one person alone cannot do too many things; it’s necessary to create a network of relations. I think that the recent months have witnessed in Italy the emergence of a “class of common interest” for LGBTI civil rights; maybe the time for action is going to come!

Monika: Could you tell me about the importance of love in your life?

Alessandra: Love is everything. It is the reason to stay together when all the society is against you, even when the common sense says no. When you’ve no rights, love is your shelter.

On the flat roof of the Constitutional
Court in Rome on the day of her victory.

Monika: Many transgender ladies write their memoirs. Have you ever thought about writing such a book yourself?

Alessandra: … who knows? Now it’s not the time for me to sit down and write a book, it’s just time to move and fight the last round (at least, here in Italy)! Maybe when this battle reaches the end, I’ll consider the idea to write a book, with the help of my wife, too.

Monika: Are you working on any new projects now?

Alessandra: At the moment, apart from being a member of Rete Lenford, I’m also a member of an organization called “Parksdiversity”, which is a non-profit organization, whose members are Italian companies or Italian branches of international companies.

Its mission is to support member companies in developing business opportunities related to having in place a comprehensive diversity strategy. I'm a member of the team, in the role of T* advisory. In the bank where I work, I’m a trade unionist, too.

So I could act on two fronts to implement best business practices.
I think that the European Union could lead an important role in levelling the common ground of Member States in the field of LGBTI civil and family rights. So, in my opinion, EU should be a focus point, implementing strategies for national civil rights.

Monika: What would you recommend to all transgender girls struggling with gender dysphoria?

Alessandra: Well, the scientific definition of dysphoria is quite definite, but all of us live and struggle in different ways, enclosed in a different milieu, too. Therefore it is difficult to put forward specific recommendations, but what I must say is to fight for yourself with all your strength and try to live your life as well as you can. Listen to your heart and not to the judgement of other people.

Monika: Alessandra, thank you for the interview!

All the photos: courtesy of Alessandra Bernaroli.

© 2014 - Monika Kowalska