Interview with Debra Soshoux - Part 2

Monika: How do you experience and express your sexuality as a trans woman? Has it changed over time?

Debra: Can we talk? I think trans women often play down our sexuality because society trumpets that’s all we’re about. We know they’re wrong. What we are is interesting. Most trans women I know seemed to be oriented pre-transition toward women; fewer toward men. I think we’re more inclined to bisexuality than the average cisgender person. That shouldn’t come as a total surprise to anyone. I was precociously into girls and actually homophobic until my late teens. As I transitioned, my primary sexual orientation migrated from female to male. I don’t know, but I suspect that’s relatively uncommon. Now I tell people that at one time or another I am, or was, or have been perceived as belonging to each leg of the LGBT quadrangle.

Monika: How did your romantic and sexual preferences evolve as you transitioned full-time?

Debra: I reoriented gradually toward men, until fairly recently only sexually, because romantic feelings for a man just weren’t happening. When I went full-time, I’d already largely weaned myself off women. I still find them attractive, but the dynamic is very different now. My sexuality changed drastically post-transition. The testosterone just wasn’t there anymore. There are men who don’t care what their partner feels or doesn’t feel. I prefer someone who cares about me because now I really need that emotional connection. If I’m responsive, sex will be better for him, which in turn makes it better for me, and we both spiral upwards into great sex.

No, that’s not a tattoo.

Monika: What are some of the unique challenges and experiences you face in your sexual life as a trans woman?

Debra: Conversely, if I’m not feeling it, I’ll immediately sense his ardor fizzle and the sex will spiral downwards into a black hole. It’s a feedback loop, either positive or negative, not all that different from a cisgender woman’s experience. But for trans women the mental element is even more critical because we’re neurologically challenged, starting with just half the number of nerve endings and losing most of those during vaginoplasty. I’m envious of hyper-orgasmic trans women, some of whom had the same surgeon as I.

But I’m not complaining. I have an active and powerful female libido. It comes on slowly, and my sex fantasies are now strictly female, almost embarrassingly pedestrian. The dead hand of my former self still lurks in the background, monkey wrench in hand, threatening to destroy that delicate mood. An attractive man’s attention is the best antidote to those pesky self-doubts. It all came together with a man who knew everything about me but loved me nonetheless and wouldn’t give up on me while I sorted things out… shades of Christina Aguilera, “What A Girl Wants.” I’m still doing OK. Most of the men who come on to me these days take off when I tell them about my past, but a few are able to overcome the “ick factor.” The ones who can’t? “Next!”

Monika: How do you view the current situation of transgender women in American society today?

Debra: We certainly upset people’s applecarts. When I started my transition, I couldn’t have imagined the progress we’ve made, especially in the last ten years or so. The bigotry of a very vocal and activist conservative element is appalling, but it’s balanced by the increasing support we’re getting from more thoughtful quarters. People can change. Parents, educators, businesses, government, ordinary straight people everywhere are shedding antiquated, blinkered attitudes and recognizing that it’s indeed possible for someone to look one way but be another inside, even though they’ll never experience that feeling themselves. That’s remarkable, especially for a society so permeated with religious fundamentalism. The tide of change favors us.
Monika: How would you describe your relationship with fashion? Do you enjoy it, and how has your style evolved over time?

Debra: As I’ve evolved, so has my wardrobe. When I started my transition, I’d already had FFS and my hair had grown out, but I was still surprised at how easily I presented as female. I had very little fashion guidance and just had to figure things out for myself. I didn’t really know what was right for me, so I started dressing androgynously and kept pushing the envelope incrementally. 

 

The Navy doesn’t have a problem with her.

 

Monika: What challenges have you faced when selecting clothes, especially given your body shape and changes through transition?

Debra: I was always slight, but I wanted to draw attention away from residual male signals. Broader shoulders and a larger ribcage make blouses problematic, and narrow hips can destroy the illusion of a female figure. My breast augmentation radically altered my geometry. I would have gone smaller if my waist had been smaller. A tummy tuck helped a lot, and last year I dieted and dropped 15 pounds. I’m back to my high school weight. Now I’m a size 4 or 6 below the waist but an 8 above. Fortunately, many wealthy women in LA are forever cleaning out their closets, so for several years I found lots of fine merchandise in thrift shops for next to nothing.

Like many girls just starting out, I went a little overboard with tight-fitting tops because I didn’t want to wear anything labeled “large.” Over time I realized larger sizes made me look smaller and therefore more femme. Most button-front tops are too tight because my boobs are large, so I prefer loose knits. They’re comfortable, stylish, and hide a multitude of anatomical irregularities. Even during my thrift shop stage, I’d occasionally splurge on the good stuff at major end-of-year sales. Classics never go out of style. Over time I acquired a nice wardrobe.

Monika: What about shoes and colors? Do you have preferences or difficulties there?

Debra: Shoes are problematic, even though I have relatively small feet. I wear an 8½ or 9 wide (American size) and often have to stretch out the toe box, even with wide widths. I had bunion surgery even before I started transition, so I stay away from high heels, they usually hurt. I love ballet flats. They’re comfortable, I don’t need to appear any taller than I am, and toe cleavage is as sexy as high heels. Transwomen have a shorter crotch-to-waist distance, so women’s slacks are usually uncomfortably loose “down there,” but younger women’s jeans fit well, especially hip-huggers, which are low-rise.

I’m not working anymore, so I usually dress very casually, lots of skinny jeans. As a male, I was very monochrome, but even then I tended toward the androgynous. Now I can wear color. I love pastels. I feel best in reds and pinks, but I also have a lot of black and white. It’s amazing how much better I feel with a little lipstick.

Jenna Talackova probably feels the same.

 

Monika: What are your thoughts on transgender beauty pageants and their place in society?

Debra: I’m OK with them. Yes, I understand pageants objectify women, and I understand the problems with judging people based on looks. Yes, radical feminists go apoplectic because to them we embrace all the worst female stereotypes, the ones they’re running from for their lives. I believe these images’ appeal is not merely a function of a dominant patriarchy; rather, they tap into a deeper female sub- or semi-consciousness. Well, mine for sure. I feel confident enough about my femininity and my credentials as a person to present however I want. As humans, we evolved as we did for a reason. Human males have the largest penises relative to body size of any primate species, and only human females have permanent breasts. That should tell you something about human sexuality. Why fight it?

Monika: Many transgender women write memoirs about their experiences. Have you ever considered writing a book yourself?

Debra: It does seem that you can’t be anyone in the community unless you’ve written a book. After my surgery, I wrote a very candid personal essay that Lynn Conway graciously posted on her Transsexual Women’s Successes webpage (Gallery page 2; look for “Debra/Attorney”). That’s probably going to be it for me, except for interviews like this (Thank you, Monika!).
Monika: What advice would you give to transgender women who are struggling with gender dysphoria?

Debra: A number of things. First of all, understand that there’s nothing wrong with you. Transfolk are born this way everywhere in roughly the same proportion to the general population, every day of every week of every month of every year since who-knows-when. So, if we’re not “normal,” neither is any person whose height, weight, intelligence, or other traits are more than one standard deviation off the median. Actually, there may be a few more of us now because of things like DES given to pregnant women in the 50s and 60s to avoid miscarriages, and all the hormones in our food supply. 

But really, so what? It’s really the rest of society that has the problem. The science that says we’re born this way just keeps growing, yet they’re in denial. Most of them try to justify their prejudices with religious dogma for which there is not a scintilla of credible evidence. Therefore, what they believe is by definition irrational, yet they insist our sense of ourselves as female inside is “delusional.” I was miserable for so long because I too bought into their b.s. That’s over. I finally learned I’m OK. When the conversation turns to my gender, I sometimes say very matter-of-factly, “You do know about me, don’t you?” and then go blithely on with whatever I’m saying, as if my being trans is irrelevant, which it usually is. It’s surprising how easy this is and the effect is profound.

 

A smiling lady!

 

Monika: How do you handle other people’s opinions and ignorance about transgender people?

Debra: Most people don’t have an original idea in their heads about us. What they think they know, they usually got second-hand. I’m confident, so people usually take their cue from me. If I haven’t won them over, at least they keep their mouths shut. It reminds me of something I learned in the Navy: “When I want your opinion, I’ll give it to you.” Get educated. Know the basics (sex, gender, and sexual orientation). It’s the paradigm that clears out the cobwebs of the fuzzy thinking that feeds the demagogues. There are many good resources. IMO, Lynn Conway’s website is still the best. I also like Annie Richards’ Second Type Woman.

Monika: Does age or appearance affect how transgender women are perceived or accepted? 

Debra: A lot of t-girls are younger and prettier than I am, but I still do OK. I think it’s because I can converse reasonably knowledgeably and entertainingly on just about anything without a “like” or “you know.” Speech matters. Look the part. I’ll bet every culture, every language has an expression akin to “don’t judge a book by its cover,” yet that’s everyone’s first impulse. We’re simply a lookist species.

Monika: How important is physical transition and appearance in dealing with gender dysphoria?

Debra: So many transwomen go through puberties that for a woman are disfiguring, but medical procedures can redress a lot of the damage. Yes, it’s expensive, so it’s doubly unfair, but if you can afford it, why handicap yourself unnecessarily? That’s like practicing bleeding. Looking like a woman does not make one a woman. I’m a woman because a je ne sais quoi inside that keeps drawing me toward the female refuses to go away. Looking like a woman made it easier for my inner female to emerge and blossom until she just became second nature. People, in turn, are more accepting because I vibe more as female. Life is easier, and a lot safer.

My looks worked against me when I applied for a job as a trans lawyer with a major LGBT rights organization. I learned that the radfem who interviewed me can’t stand femme transwomen. Judging by the numbers, they’re far more accepting of transmen. That makes some sense. Many, if not most, FtMs spend years in the lesbian community cultivating a butch persona. After a while, they realize they’re actually male inside. But that connection to the lesbian community persists and renders them more acceptable to gays as well.

J’adore la France!

Monika: What’s your perspective on younger generations of trans people who transition before puberty?

Debra: This is the dirty little secret no one wants to talk about, but until we air this disgraceful bit of laundry, it will continue to fester and breed nothing but bad feelings between and among people whose bread is really buttered on the same side. I can’t help feeling jealous of kids today who transition before puberty. They almost seem a different species. They’re unclockable and they will never acquire a lifetime of toxic male experiences that just play with your head. 

Sadly, hormone blockers are no panacea, and even their road will be bumpy. I suppose if they totally woodwork, they could avoid that awkward conversation with a prospective lover that often results in rejection. I’m uncomfortable doing that, especially with someone I like. These girls are now front-and-center in our fight for equality. The Right’s attack on young trans girls is inexcusable, scandalous, really, but it will pass and we will prevail. I just hope these kids remember and appreciate the older transitioners who paved the way for them.
Monika: Debra, thank you for the interview!
Debra: Thank you, Monika.

All the photos: courtesy of Debra Soshoux.

© 2014 - Monika Kowalska

  

 

Some documentaries with Debra Soshoux: