Monika: People often speak about LGBT rights as one shared movement. When the transgender community is grouped under the same umbrella, can it still push its own issues forward effectively?
Joann: It isn’t a function of the order of the letters, though there are still some who use GLBT and a few who go with TBLG, as if the order really matters. More recently, it’s been LGBTQ, LGBTIQ, and even LGBTIQQ (Intersex, Queer, Questioning) There is sometimes an uneasy relationship among advocates, and it’s not unidirectional.
This is not unlike the strained situation between Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Frederick Douglass in the 1870’s – however, there are many L, G, and B activists who recognize that “no one is free until we are all free” and that we do need to work together. (In fact, it may be that the “B” is more left out than the “T” in many.
Monika: Looking at the history of activism, do you see anyone in the US trans community whose impact resembles Harvey Milk’s role in gay rights?
Joann: That is a tough question. The trans community is an order of magnitude smaller than the gay community. I don’t know of any direct analogy to Harvey Milk. Andrea James and Calpernia Addams have worked in the background to help filmmakers and television producers produce more realistic trans characters. Chaz Bono, Laverne Cox, and Janet Mock, and a young, now teen-aged child named Jazz (who was first introduced to the American television-viewing public by Barbara Walters) have all had a recent influence on public perception.
Monika: On your blog you write that “God Loves Transsexual and Transgender People.” If that is so, how do you understand the fact that some of us are born with minds and bodies that don’t align?
Joann: I’m going to separate science from theology. There were two Australian studies in 2008 that identified genetic predispositions for embryonic/fetal development that could result in an individual whose brain development opposite the genital tract development could fall within the spectrum of trans identities. The science is not a genetic “on/off” switch like those overly-simplified explanations of genetics illustrated by discussing Meel and fruit flies. From the standpoint of genetic and developmental studies, we’re just different. It’s not as if we’re God’s little joke.
Monika: And from a faith perspective, how do you reconcile this difference with religious teachings?
Joann: From a Christian theological POV, because we are different, we might pose a challenge for some people, much in the way that lepers posed a challenge to Francis of Assisi – it’s not trans people who “pass” – it’s the people who are able to face their fears and prejudices who do the passing – for them, we’re the test. And far from being God’s joke, or some sort of mistake, there is enough theology to point out that trans people are actually very special from a Judaeo/Christian POV. Genesis 1:27 – human beings are created as “male and female” in the “image and likeness of God.”
Joann: It isn’t a function of the order of the letters, though there are still some who use GLBT and a few who go with TBLG, as if the order really matters. More recently, it’s been LGBTQ, LGBTIQ, and even LGBTIQQ (Intersex, Queer, Questioning) There is sometimes an uneasy relationship among advocates, and it’s not unidirectional.
This is not unlike the strained situation between Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Frederick Douglass in the 1870’s – however, there are many L, G, and B activists who recognize that “no one is free until we are all free” and that we do need to work together. (In fact, it may be that the “B” is more left out than the “T” in many.
Monika: Looking at the history of activism, do you see anyone in the US trans community whose impact resembles Harvey Milk’s role in gay rights?
Joann: That is a tough question. The trans community is an order of magnitude smaller than the gay community. I don’t know of any direct analogy to Harvey Milk. Andrea James and Calpernia Addams have worked in the background to help filmmakers and television producers produce more realistic trans characters. Chaz Bono, Laverne Cox, and Janet Mock, and a young, now teen-aged child named Jazz (who was first introduced to the American television-viewing public by Barbara Walters) have all had a recent influence on public perception.
Monika: On your blog you write that “God Loves Transsexual and Transgender People.” If that is so, how do you understand the fact that some of us are born with minds and bodies that don’t align?
Joann: I’m going to separate science from theology. There were two Australian studies in 2008 that identified genetic predispositions for embryonic/fetal development that could result in an individual whose brain development opposite the genital tract development could fall within the spectrum of trans identities. The science is not a genetic “on/off” switch like those overly-simplified explanations of genetics illustrated by discussing Meel and fruit flies. From the standpoint of genetic and developmental studies, we’re just different. It’s not as if we’re God’s little joke.
Monika: And from a faith perspective, how do you reconcile this difference with religious teachings?
Joann: From a Christian theological POV, because we are different, we might pose a challenge for some people, much in the way that lepers posed a challenge to Francis of Assisi – it’s not trans people who “pass” – it’s the people who are able to face their fears and prejudices who do the passing – for them, we’re the test. And far from being God’s joke, or some sort of mistake, there is enough theology to point out that trans people are actually very special from a Judaeo/Christian POV. Genesis 1:27 – human beings are created as “male and female” in the “image and likeness of God.”
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Monika: Could you share more about how scripture supports this view?
Joann: In the second Creation story, there is the original Adam, who consists of whatever it was that remained Adam, and whatever it was that was separated out to make Eve. God is like the original Adam “male and female.” A rabbi wrote an article a few years ago about the Tetragrammaton (YHWH) – if it’s read backward in Hebrew, it translates as “He/She.” Then in Isaiah 56:1-7, there is a special place in God’s house for “eunuchs” (which includes trans people). In Matthew 19:12, even Jesus says nice things about trans people (eunuchs); and in Acts 8, the first person to be baptized turns out to be one of us – a eunuch from Ethiopia who happened to be reading from the Book of Isaiah while meeting Philip.
Monika: Does this theological perspective influence how you see your own identity?
Joann: It reinforces the idea that our existence is neither accidental nor marginal. Instead, it places us within a long, meaningful spiritual tradition that acknowledges and honors our presence.
Monika: You’ve been involved in public life for many years. How would you describe your political engagement and the role you see for transgender women in shaping policy?
Joann: I am an elected Democratic Party district leader in White Plains. I founded the New York Transgender Rights Organization, which serves as an umbrella organization for local activists. After writing the GENDA bill in December 2002, I have advocated for its passage for the past 12+ years.
I have worked with the NYCLU and through a church organization involved with the Westchester Coalition for Police Reform, which grew out of a number of shootings of African-American men in Westchester County. I help teach small groups techniques for effective lobbying. Yes, I believe trans women can make a difference.
Monika: Shifting from politics to something more personal, how has love shaped your journey?
Joann: After my divorce in 1999, it took me a few years before I could even contemplate the possibility of another relationship. The Trudy came into my life, and she made things better.
Love, in a larger sense, is what keeps power from becoming a tyranny, and leads to justice. If one carves out the miracles and resurrection from the narrative of the Gospels, what is left is a social justice theology that is centered on love and non-violent (except for the episode of driving the money changers out of the Temple) resistance to oppression inspired Gandhi and Dr. King in their missions to seek justice by similar non-violent means. Jesus, Francis of Assisi, Gandhi, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, and Dr. King c standard.
Monika: Many trans women choose to tell their stories through memoirs. Have you ever felt drawn to writing one yourself?
Joann: There are a lot of these books out there. I am sure there may be a book in me to write, but it’s more likely to be on theology, politics, and the relationship between liberty and responsibility.
Monika: And what occupies your time these days? Are there any projects you’re especially focused on?
Joann: The passage of GENDA is my primary avocation, together with trying to make time for the pro bono work helping trans people in the nearby counties just north of New York City obtain judicial name changes.
Monika: For girls facing gender dysphoria, what guidance would you offer from your own experience?
Joann: The first thing is to know that just because we are different, that does not mean there is something wrong, immoral or pathological about our existence. Self-acceptance is essential. We have to be able to love ourselves for who and what we are by our natures, as we can’t love our neighbor if we cannot love ourselves. And no matter how low the collateral damage might be, it really does get better.
Monika: Before we finish, is there anything you wish more young trans women understood about their own worth?
Joann: That their lives have inherent dignity and meaning, and that embracing who they are is an act of courage that can inspire others.
Monika: Joann, thank you for the interview!
Joann: Proszę bardzo!
END OF PART 2
All the photos: courtesy of Joann Prinzivalli.
© 2015 - Monika Kowalska
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