Kathy Anne Noble is an Australian transgender activist, the founder and president of Agender Australia and Changeling Aspects, a support group for transgender people based in Brisbane. Born in London, she moved to Australia in 1980 and became an Australian citizen in 1988. After spending most of her working life in the financial sector as a financial adviser in both the United Kingdom and Australia, Kathy began her transition in November 2001, at the age of 65. Her family, including her children and grandchildren, eventually accepted her, and she found support among friends and members of the transgender community.
Kathy is actively involved in advocating for transgender rights, working with the Australian Human Rights Commission, the Queensland Anti-Discrimination Commission, and government departments at both state and federal levels. She has also served on the boards of Queensland Healthy Communities and Open Doors, an organisation supporting young people questioning their gender identity or sexuality.
Through her advocacy, she campaigns for better legal recognition, protection against discrimination, and greater understanding of transgender people's experiences. In 2014, she is also working towards establishing a national transgender organisation that could represent the community's needs and concerns before the Australian Parliament.
In 2011, Kathy published her autobiography, Two Lives: A Transsexual's Story and the Fight for Recognition, in which she shares her personal journey while addressing the challenges transgender people face in everyday life, including family relationships, social acceptance, access to medical care, and legal recognition. She hopes that her book will help governments and society better understand transgender people and recognise them as human beings deserving of dignity and respect. Kathy is also passionate about preserving the history of the transgender community, regretting that so many personal stories from earlier generations have never been recorded. Through her writing, advocacy, and support for younger transgender people, she continues to work towards making their journeys easier and ensuring that their experiences are understood.
Monika: Kathy, welcome! It is a pleasure to have you with us.
Kathy: Hi Monika, good to catch up at last.
Monika: Please tell us a little about yourself.
Kathy: Oh dear, that is rather a problem, as I have done so much in my nearly 80 years. I was born in London, lived through the Blitz, married twice, to sisters, and served 2 years of National Service in the RAF. I spent most of my working life in the financial field, as a financial advisor both in the UK and Australia. I moved to Australia in 1980 and became a citizen in 1988. I have 4 kids from both marriages still living, 7 grandkids, and 8 great-grandkids. My kids are spread across the world, in Australia, the UK, and America. I finally transitioned in November 2001 on the Gold Coast, 45 minutes south of Brisbane. This year sees my 13th birthday as Kathy. Both of my wives are now deceased, and I miss them both.
Monika: You champion a wide range of causes connected to transgender rights. Which initiatives have you taken part in?
Kathy: I am still active as an activist and advocate for Trans* people and currently work with the Australian Human Rights Commission, the Queensland Anti-Discrimination Commission, as well as departments in the Queensland government and the Commonwealth Government. After recent meetings with the Human Rights Commissioner and the Commonwealth Attorney-General’s director of Policy, they both expressed the view that a National Trans* group is sorely needed in Australia. We are currently working on this. I have been on the Board of Queensland Healthy Communities, and Open Doors, a group for the young, questioning their gender/sexuality. I have recently stood down from the LGBTI Legal Service in Queensland. I feel that 2 years on any committee is enough, and believe that others can give new emphasis to problems. I am still working with younger Trans* people and helping them to understand what is required to amend documentation.
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| Her biography. |
Monika: What drove you to write your autobiography, “Two Lives: A Transsexual's Story and the Fight for Recognition”?
Kathy: I wanted to get not just my story out, but also the many problems that we face in our everyday lives as Trans* people. Acceptance, law, family, friends, school, drugs and hormones, as well as surgery, if able to afford it. I tried to get all of this across and was told that several government departments have used it. I wanted, and still do want, more understanding from governments and society at large. The fact is that we are not monsters, but human beings who suffered a quirk of nature at birth.
Monika: Every journey is different, but which aspects of your experience could be useful to other trans women?
Kathy: That is a hard question, as I consider that each is an individual situation. I try to help, based on my experiences as a Trans* person and of course the way in which we are expected to understand all that is required of us, in order to become our true selves. What annoys me is the fact that we have to prove to others who we know we are. This is still lost on many that we have to deal with in our journey. We must accept the fact that very few of us are going to become a fully-fledged woman, as we have not had the training given by our mothers and sisters, so we have to have a crash course in order to achieve as much femininity as possible. I am thankful that much of this will disappear, now that younger Trans* people have access to puberty blockers, and all that will mean.
Monika: Tell me about your own transition. How old were you, was it a difficult process, and did your family and friends stand by you?
Kathy: I knew from about 6 that there was something wrong. I compensated over the years by crossdressing, but stopped that as well after my second marriage, and 20 years of growing a beard. I finally came out to my second wife at the age of 65, just before we retired. She partially accepted my change and proceeded to tell the kids. They all accepted me, as did the grandkids. My wife died in 2000. For the guys, it was a little harder, but that came good too, over time. I have been extremely lucky in keeping friends and workmates, but more important has been the fact that I have made many new friends within and outside of the Trans* community.
Monika: Were there any transgender role models you followed at the time of your transition?
Kathy: I knew of Christine Jorgensen and Roberta Cowell, whilst serving in the RAF. It was later that I became aware of Coccinelle and Bambi, the French Transsexuals. Coccinelle’s book was my bible until I lost it in moving house. I can’t honestly say that I had any Trans* role models as such. I did my own thing and waited for many years before fully expressing my true feelings. One of my daughters said, “You did a bloody good job of hiding it all that time.” I certainly do not profess to be a role model for others, but I do like to help where I can, to make their transition easier.
Monika: Coming out is rarely easy. What was the hardest part for you?
Kathy: Telling my second wife. She told the kids. Her death was a terrible blow, which I still remember. It sounds dreadful to say that her demise freed me up to become Kathy fully by sex affirmation surgery. I had what can only be described as a dream run throughout the transition period, and very importantly, after it. I had neighbors and friends support me, as well as very dear friends in both the Trans* and crossdresser community who helped me through the full transition and what comes afterwards.
Monika: You are a walking encyclopedia of the transgender movement in Australia. Which events or people have contributed most to the cause?
Kathy: There are many, both past and present. I think to name any of them would be to do an injustice to those that are not named. That might sound like a “cop out”, but I feel it is wrong to nominate people. There are those who have been around for many, many years, and then there are those who have been there recently and in between. I am privileged to say that I work with many now, and can draw on the experience of those older (Trans* time) ones. I am only sorry that many have not recorded their life experiences, so others can read and understand the enormous differences that were faced 40 or 50 years ago, compared to now. We have lost much of the history of the Trans* community.
Monika: How would you describe the present situation of transgender women in Australian society?
Kathy: Good, bad, and indifferent. We have a long way to go before Trans* women are fully accepted in society. Many are afraid to declare themselves as Trans* women, and dread the thought of going into hospital or having a mammogram, as it means “outing themselves”. As many choose not to have surgery, or more likely, cannot afford it, this means that although we can legally amend our passport, we still cannot amend our birth certificate, except in the Australian Capital Territory (ACT) since March 2014. This could and does lead to some hairy moments if going into hospital. There are many other instances that we also face in society.
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| With her daughter at the book launch. |
Monika: Some say transgenderism could be the new frontier for human rights. Do you agree?
Kathy: I like to think that it is already there, and just needs some extra push to make it more in the limelight. The problem, I feel, is that not enough of us are willing to stand up and be counted. Until true numbers are known as to how many Trans* people there are in the world or any given country, we are not going to be fully recognized.
Monika: A few months ago, Jared Leto received his Oscar for Best Supporting Actor for playing the transgender character Rayon in “Dallas Buyers Club”. How do you feel about the way transgender stories and characters have been featured in films, newspapers, and books so far?
Kathy: I have not seen this program. I have recently watched the “Carlotta Story” on the Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC), and thought it was well done, but it had a female playing a Trans* woman. Many are portrayed in the media in not a good light. Wrong pronouns are used, and names are being savaged on many occasions. Most books are by Trans* people and their life stories. Some books that talk of Trans*, Two Spirits, and Crossdressers as characters again portray the character in good, bad, and abysmal ways. Films usually use us as a fun element. There are of course some that really hit the spot and others that are purely Trans* orientated.
Monika: The transgender cause is usually presented together with the other LGBT communities, and the T comes last in the abbreviation. Is the transgender community able to promote its own cause within the LGBT group?
Kathy: I think this was outlined to me by the Human Rights Commissioner and the Director of Policy. They feel that we need to stand alone here in Australia, in order to be able to put our case to Parliament. Many believe that we should stand alone, as we appear to be dominated by the L&G section of that acronym. I have many friends in both, but would dearly like to see a National Trans* group in vogue. This is because our problems are so much bigger and misunderstood by many in the L&G community. It will be difficult, as we are so fractured as a Trans* community, that I wonder if we will ever be able to set one up and promote our cause and problems to Canberra.
Monika: In the 60s and 70s, Harvey Milk was a leading voice for gay activism in the USA. Is there anyone in the Australian transgender community whose actions could be compared to his?
Kathy: I honestly cannot think of anyone who comes close to him, sorry to say.
Monika: Politics is another arena. Are you active in it, do you take part in any lobbying campaigns, and can transgender women make a difference there?
Kathy: I am not directly involved in politics in the sense of standing for parliament. I have done, and continue to lobby via meetings as above, and also by writing papers and submissions on problems that we face. We are not fortunate here in Australia, as we did not have a Georgina Beyer, as New Zealand did, as their and the world’s first Trans* member of Parliament. We have support from parliament here via the Parliamentary Friends of LGBTI Australians. I am still waiting to see what they achieve for Trans* people in general.
Monika: What place does love hold in your life?
Kathy: This has always been of great importance to me, as evidenced by my 2 marriages. Sounds strange, but I loved both wives and I still love the kids in my life. I miss that part of my life now, but then, I chose the life I lead now, as a single person. I had a dog for many years but lost her some time ago. I have not gone down that path again, sadly. Love is outside of the family circle and can take many forms. We can choose to interact with others in a meaningful way that shows our love for our fellow travelers. I hope that I have achieved this in some small way.
Monika: Are there any new projects on your horizon?
Kathy: I am always working on something. Currently, I am trying to ascertain how the new ruling from the UK concerning Trans* people who stay married after surgery will benefit them after 10 December 2014. They will be allowed to amend their birth certificate if remaining married after that date. I am trying to find out just how this will affect those in that situation here in Australia and New Zealand. There is also the attempt to organize a National Trans* group and my ongoing work with governments and legislation. The work with the Trans* young and getting professionals and society to understand us more.
Monika: What advice would you give to transgender girls struggling with gender dysphoria?
Kathy: Don’t rush into this, as once done, it cannot be easily undone. All Trans* people need thick skin and a very big sense of humor. Lastly, don’t take yourself and life in general too seriously, be proud of who you are. There are not too many people who can lay claim to having lived successfully as both sexes. Love to all.
Monika: Kathy, thank you so much for this interview!
All the photos: courtesy of Kathy Anne Noble.
© 2014 - Monika Kowalska
Kathy Anne Noble has passed on to the other side. May she find the same happiness, love, and kindness in the next life that she so generously shared with others in this one. Thank you, Kathy, for all that you have done and for the lives you have touched. May you rest in peace.
17 Aug 2015
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