Meet Kate Bornstein: the trailblazing gender outlaw who rewrote the rules and then tossed out the rulebook entirely. A luminous presence in queer culture for nearly four decades, Kate is a performance artist, author, and all-around boundary-breaker who has never stopped evolving, both in art and in self. Born in New Jersey in 1948, Kate's life has taken her from Brown University to the ranks of Scientology’s Sea Org, from the stages of San Francisco's radical theatre scene to Broadway, and from a binary world to the beautifully non-binary space she now claims as her own. Known for her wit, vulnerability, and fierce compassion, Kate has built a life that dares to make room for contradiction: she is both survivor and sage, both punk and philosopher, both wounded and wildly alive. Her landmark works, like Gender Outlaw, Hello, Cruel World, and My New Gender Workbook, have offered lifelines to generations of gender-expansive youth and anyone dancing at the edges of what society tells us is “real.”
In Kate’s world, gender is a game, love is a revolution, and kindness is non-negotiable. Whether she’s writing about surviving PTSD, challenging the church of Scientology, or caring for her many pets in New York City with her partner Barbara Carrellas, Kate reminds us that a life lived authentically is not always easy, but it can be dazzling. Even now, Kate’s voice rings clear as ever, playful, defiant, and deeply humane. In an age when debates over identity grow ever louder, she offers something quieter but more radical: permission. Permission to be messy, to be unfinished, to laugh through heartbreak and find hope at the margins. Interviewing Kate feels less like meeting a legend and more like coming home to someone who sees you, fully, joyfully, and without apology. In this conversation, Kate brings her signature mix of sparkle, honesty, and rebellion. We talk about love, loss, gender, aging, healing, and the magic of staying curious. It’s not just an interview, it’s a dialogue with someone who has cracked open the world for so many of us and left the light on.
Monika: Today, I have the pleasure and honor of speaking with Kate Bornstein, American author, playwright, performance artist, and gender theorist. Kate is the brilliant mind behind several groundbreaking books, including A Queer and Pleasant Danger: A Memoir, My New Gender Workbook: A Step-by-Step Guide to Achieving World Peace Through Gender Anarchy and Sex Positivity, and Gender Outlaw: On Men, Women, and the Rest of Us. Hello, Kate!
Kate: Hello, Monika. Thank you for welcoming me into the amazing company of trans folks that you’ve pulled together here.
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| Photo by Barbara Carrellas. |
Monika: Kate, I'd love to begin by asking about your health. You've been so open about your battle with cancer over the years, and I remember the media coverage around your diagnosis and the crowdfunding campaign that followed. How are you feeling these days?
Kate: Ah, you’re sweet to ask. Thank you. Yep, I’m feeling very well, thank you. In 2012, I was diagnosed with lung cancer. And this was on top of a leukemia diagnosis from back in 1996. Surgery didn’t get all the cancer out of my lung, so the next step was chemotherapy and radiation. But because of my two cancers, there was no approved chemotherapy being used by any doctors on my health plan. The only doctor who was working on that kind of combination of cancer was not covered by my insurance, and cost a lot of money that I didn’t have.
Monika: That must have been such an overwhelming situation to face. How did you find the strength to navigate it all, and how did the community come together to support you?
Kate: So my girlfriend, Barbara Carrellas, and our friend Laura Vogel put together one of the very earliest crowd-sourcing campaigns, and within a week, thousands and thousands of people gave me over $100,000, and sure enough, it worked! After two years of chemotherapy and radiation, I am now cancer-free for three years. I see this time of my life as a time gifted to me by love. And I’m spending this gifted time returning that love the very best ways I can.
Monika: You were one of the first gender theorists that refuted publicly the binary concept of gender. I am curious about one aspect. In one of the interviews, you mentioned that except for the first six months post-transition when you regarded yourself as a woman, you have always identified as non-binary. What happened during those 6 months?
Kate: Ha! Nice question. In order to answer, I need to go back to when I was trying to live my life as a boy and as a man. I was always conscious of the fact that doing “boy” and “man” never felt natural to me. I had to watch boys and men to see how they did it. I practiced. Sometimes in the mirror. And gradually, I could perform “boy” and “man” easily and without much thought. But inside, there were always doubts.
Monika: So when you transitioned, did you find yourself falling into similar patterns, trying to perform what society expected from you as a woman?
Kate: Fast forward to six months after my SRS. I was conscious, every day, of the fact that doing “girl” and “woman” did not feel natural. I was watching girls and women to see how they did it. I practiced. Sometimes in the mirror. I wasn’t expressing myself. I was expressing myself, mind, body, and soul, as the boy, man, girl, woman that the culture expected me to be. I finally threw up my hands in despair and went into a deep depression. I guess I wasn’t a woman after all. (I wasn’t regretful of the SRS, I was having an awful lot of fun with my new vagina.)
Monika: That sounds like such a profound realization. How did you move forward from there and come to embrace your identity?
Kate: OK, so if I’m not a man and I’m not a woman, what the fuck am I?!?! To this day, 31 years later, I haven’t been able to answer that one. Oh, I’ve called myself a lot of things: dyke, femme, trans woman, manic pixie dreamgirl tranny, and so many more things that I’ve enjoyed being. But none of them are me. So now I go back to the only way I learned to express my identity thirty-one years ago: I’m not a man, and I’m not a woman. The best way I can express myself is through the complete negation of the binary.
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"Gender Outlaw: On Men, Women, and the Rest of Us" is available via Amazon. It’s a whole new version of the book, which came out 6 months ago. |
Monika: Being a non-binary person, you decided to be closer to being a woman rather than a man. I am just wondering how the non-binary concept is influenced by some elements of the man and woman paradigm because you could have been a non-binary person, being in the semi-male mode too.
Kate: HAHAHAHA! Great, here we go… I said earlier that I was happy with my new vagina. Well, I was happy with everything girly I was able to be in the world. I love being a pretty girl. That’s my gender expression, not my gender identity. Jenny Boylan once told me she never felt feminine, but she always felt female. I thought about that and realized that I’ve never felt female, but I’ve always felt feminine. My transition has been wonderful in part because I’ve been able to be feminine more openly.
My gender identity is queer: not-man, not-woman.
It gives me freedom.
My gender expression is straight: cute little old lady.
It gives me pleasure.
And I’m comfortable being femme boy,
In the company of other femme boys.
Fair?
Monika: In recent years, we’ve seen trans visibility in media and culture grow. From Laverne Cox declaring “Trans is beautiful” to trans women becoming celebrated artists, politicians, academics, and entrepreneurs, it feels like we’re living through a moment of transformation. But are we really witnessing lasting change, or is it just the surface of something deeper still waiting to happen?
Kate: Sigh. People like to think that “trans” has reached a tipping point into mainstream popular culture. Nope. Not yet. Transgender has reached a tipping point, hell yes! But trans has not, because to most people in the world, transgender doesn’t mean what it used to mean to so many trans people. Transgender used to be the inclusive term. It’s not anymore, well, not to mainstream popular culture. They use transgender to mean boys and girls and men and women who have transitioned out of another gender. That’s what an increasing majority of binary-identified trans women are calling themselves. And nonbinary trans people are thereby not considered transgender. It’s complicated, I know. It’s language in transition.
Kate: Transgender as a term now describes two different phenomena. There’s transgender as inclusive of everyone for whom thinking about gender occupies a lot of your life. And there’s transgender as binary-identified trans people. Trans is now the generally accepted inclusive term, and frankly, I like it better. And look, I’m not saying there is ANYTHING wrong, damaged, less than, or untrue about being binary-identified trans.
I used to think that. But no… we, each of us, have an understanding of gender that, just by believing in it, eases our suffering and increases our chance for happiness. For some, that’s binary. For some, it’s not. And bless Laverne Cox a thousand times over for so clearly insisting that trans is beautiful. Ah, what a day it will be for the world when we, all of us, understand that.
Monika: Despite some signs of progress, there’s still so much hostility and violence. The so-called “restroom wars” continue, and transgender women, especially women of color, are still being murdered on the streets.
Kate: It breaks my heart.
Monika: Caitlyn Jenner remains a polarizing figure in the trans community. Some people see her as a trailblazing icon, while others view her as a problematic representation. Given your non-binary perspective, how do you see her?
Kate: She’s a champion. She’s a good friend. She’s my age, well, I’m one year older, so I call her my kid sister. She’s got a great sense of humor. She can laugh at herself and her foibles. She’s unafraid to make mistakes in front of people, and she always… always… apologizes and manages to do better next time. My goodness, what more could you ask from any human being? CJ and I have come to respect each other’s gender paths and political choices, and we look beyond that to what friendship and allyship really mean.
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| Photo by Santiago Felipe. |
Monika: In one of your writings, you said, “We have looked for myths that include us in great novels, music, the latest comic book, or even some stupid advertising campaign. We'll look anywhere for mythology that embraces people like ourselves.” That really resonated with me. So many of us unconsciously search for validation and representation in the stories around us. Do you think that this hunger for myth and visibility is part of how we shape our identities?
Kate: Hmmmm, when I wrote that I was referring to the fact that in early transition, or early coming out, nearly every trans person goes through a period of learning how to identify as and/or express ourselves as the genders we want to embrace. We want mainstream popular culture to embrace us in our new genders, and the best way to do that is to be or express ourselves as genders that the mainstream already embraces.
Monika: You mentioned that I’m no longer doing this unconsciously. Now that I’m aware of it, I suppose I’m intentionally engaging with it. How would you describe that process?
Kate: Now… you’re saying you’re unintentionally doing this yourself. Heh. Not anymore you’re not. From the moment you recognized it, it has become to some degree intentional. Yay! That’s called mindfully navigating gender.
Monika: How about highlighting the existence of transgender rights? Is there a better way than searching for representation in mainstream culture?
Kate: As to highlighting the existence of transgender rights… well, that’s not my way of doing things. People call me a transgender activist. Ha! I’m not transgender, and I’m a piss-poor activist. I’m an artist in service to activism. How about you, Monika? You’re doing an amazing job of highlighting trans arts and activism through this website. Thank you!
END OF PART 1
Main photo by Sam Feder.
All the photos: courtesy of Kate Bornstein.
© 2017 - Monika Kowalska
