Interview with Cathryn Platine - Part 3

Monika: What motivated you to align yourself with GenderPAC?

Cathryn: Sarah and I decided to participate in the 1997 GenderPAC Lobby Days in D.C., which freaked out most of the Crystal Club membership. We both resigned from the club around that time, as the rift between crossdressers and transsexuals had reached its peak. One of the crossdressers from the club contacted the bank where I worked and outed me. I lost my first decent post-transition job as a result and had to take work as a nursing assistant for minimum wage, the only job I could get after being outed.

In retrospect, I suffered more discrimination, outings, magazine bombings, reports to the FBI branding me a terrorist, and even death threats from TG-identified people than from all the outside hatred combined.

In 1998, I skipped the Lobby Days in D.C. due to a lack of funds and instead focused on establishing the First Church of the Goddess, which later became the Maetreum of Cybele and the Cybeline Revival. Monica Roberts, later of TransGriot blog fame, joined us for our first public celebration at Serpent Mound. New York trans activists Marina Brown and Laura (Potter) DeGray joined us at the second one. Laura was one of the original founders of the Transsexual Menace.

I remained in constant contact with other activists via the email lists I had discovered the year before in D.C. I continued lobbying the Ohio legislature that year, focusing mostly on name change legislation.

Monika: Looking back, what do you think was really at the heart of the tensions between crossdressers and transsexuals at the time? Was it simply a clash of egos, or was the divide inevitable due to fundamentally different needs, goals, and identities within the community?.

Cathryn: Ok, this is the part of the interview that tends to upset a lot of readers, and it’s at the heart of some of the tensions between trans women and parts of the feminist and gender-diverse communities.

Back when I was early in transition and serving as president of the Crystal Club, a support group for both transsexual and crossdressing individuals, I was the only fully transitioned member. During a conversation about restroom use at a church we were negotiating with, I proposed that we agree on some basic guidelines. I suggested that full-time transsexual women should be recognized simply as women. I had assumed this was a given in gender-related spaces, but I quickly learned that wasn’t the case. Many crossdressers in the group saw transitioned transsexuals as “super crossdressers” acting out an extended fantasy. That perception was surprisingly common at the time.

 

The Grassroots Radio Conference at the Maetreum.

 

Monika: I can only imagine that your suggestion didn’t go unchallenged. I assume it stirred quite a bit of controversy?

Cathryn: These kinds of discussions have often been postponed or outright resisted, but I believe they’re overdue. Here are a few things I think are important to say: Transsexuality is a neurological condition, one that begins prenatally, with the brain developing in ways that do not align with the body’s sex. This has been supported by numerous peer-reviewed studies over the past few decades. Men and women, including trans men and women, process information differently, another widely observed scientific finding. Most transsexual individuals are aware of their condition early in life, typically between ages three and seven. By contrast, crossdressing tends to begin around puberty and is often tied more to expression than identity.

That said, the lines can blur. Some transsexuals may initially identify as crossdressers as a way of coping or easing into self-acceptance. And yes, sometimes people who identified as crossdressers would later come to me asking if I thought they might actually be transsexual. My response varied, but I often smiled and said, “No, dear,” not to dismiss them, but perhaps because I knew they weren’t ready, and needed to find their own truth.

Monika: How did things reach a point where the rift became so clear?

Cathryn: Whenever transitioned transsexuals asserted that they were women and deserved to be treated as such, the response from some within the broader transgender umbrella was hostility. Terms like “post-op Nazis,” “elitist,” and “you got yours and say screw us” were thrown around. It felt like claiming your place as a woman was seen as denying others some kind of symbolic badge of honor, of still being marginalized. To me, that made no sense.

Most of us didn’t ask to be placed under the transgender umbrella. We were pulled into it as the definitions of terms we ourselves had coined were constantly reinterpreted. Transition, especially in those days, came at an enormous cost. Most of us lost everything, our families, jobs, friends. We transitioned because the alternative was unlivable. For many, dysphoria had to reach the “or die” stage. That’s why older transitioners were more common then than now.

Monika: But things have changed significantly today, especially with the growing visibility of younger transitioners.

Cathryn: Yes, true. Today, with younger people transitioning earlier and with the growing acceptance of gender fluidity, the dynamic has shifted. There are now more trans women who have never reached that crisis point. That’s not a bad thing, but it’s a very different experience. The rise of terms like “cis” also added confusion. To many of us, defining people as “cis” felt like setting up an opposition to womanhood or manhood, instead of inclusion within it. We preferred saying “non-trans women,” which left space for trans women, or women with a trans history, to still be understood as women.

 

At the Witch's Ball.

 

Around 25 years ago, several transsexual-focused websites hosted in-depth discussions and shared the latest research on gender and sex. Many of these were thoughtful, scholarly spaces. But they were constantly under attack from individuals identifying with the broader TG umbrella. The harassment was extreme, and doxxing became common. One woman, who had carefully protected her identity, was outed when someone tracked a boat registration number in the background of a photo.

I coined a term for this kind of backlash: neo-gynophobia, a new form of fear or hostility toward women, in this case trans women, who assert their womanhood.

All the while, the very term “transsexual” came under fire, dismissed as offensive simply because it was a medical term. But of course it is, because it refers to a medical condition. It has a treatment. And it’s one of the few medical conditions with an incredibly high success rate when that treatment is properly applied.

Monika: So why was the term transsexual eventually dropped and replaced with transgender?

Cathryn: Apparently, transsexuality had to be erased in order for some in the TG crowd to declare themselves women, as if our existence somehow threatened their legitimacy. There was this perception that transsexuals were seen as more “authentic” or “legitimate,” which created resentment. That’s not true. We’re not “higher up” on some imaginary gender hierarchy. We’re different, not better.

One piece of advice I often gave to trans women was this: if you come into women’s space simply as a woman, you're usually welcomed. But if you enter that same space as a trans, don’t be surprised if you’re not. Let me explain. I’m a Pagan priestess, and there's a lovely stone church just down the road. If I walked in and said, “I want to join, but could you tone down the Jesus stuff?” - I’d either be shown the door or laughed out of the building.

As a feminist, I watched the awakening that happened when women began reclaiming their knowledge of their own bodies. I was a contributor to the third edition of Our Bodies, Ourselves. So it’s deeply troubling to hear that in some women’s circles, TG women have joined and then requested that discussions about menstruation, pregnancy, or menopause be toned down, simply because they haven’t experienced them. That erases something vital.

Once, I was even attacked by a TG activist for attending the national NOW conference in Albany, not because I wasn’t qualified, but because I went simply as a woman, not waving a trans flag. I’d already been a NOW member for years. And what’s heartbreaking is that when non-trans women question this sort of behavior, they’re often met with immediate, vicious backlash instead of open dialogue. That kind of silencing radicalizes them, and we end up with the next generation of so-called TERFs.

Monika: What is the most constructive way to approach trans inclusion?

Cathryn: When women-only groups ask me how to handle trans inclusion, I sometimes advise a blanket ban, not because trans women don’t belong, but because too often, the loudest voices pushing their way in are the ones least respectful of the space. Then, I suggest they trust their instincts and make exceptions. Women know other women. We have to. It’s a survival skill. It’s not about appearances, it’s about presence, energy, and trust.

When the DSM-5 came out, it included what we called the “cure clause” - stating that surgery and transition could cure transsexuality. Around that time, the few remaining websites run by women of transsexual experience, often focused on science, feminism, or transition support, came under relentless attack from TG activists. Doxxing, threats, and harassment became unbearable. Most of us took our sites down simultaneously.

We walked away. Because those who demanded that their identities be respected refused to respect ours. That problem hasn’t gone away. But in recent years, some of us are cautiously re-emerging, because our stories still matter. 

 

WLPP-LP's Studio B at the Maetreum.

 

Monika: In your view, is undergoing gender reassignment surgery, or gender-affirming surgery, as some prefer to call it, an essential step in truly being a woman?

Cathryn: Let me state this in bold terms: No, I do not believe SRS is necessary to be a woman, I never did. That said, I do believe there is a psychological difference between having an “innie” and an “outie.” As a strong advocate for transsexual rights, people often assumed I was a “post-op nazi,” but nothing could be further from the truth. I believe transsexuals are hardwired in the central nervous system as female (or male) prenatally. I also believe they are driven to align their bodies with their identities to the best of their ability, and that this drive tends to intensify with time.

Now, here’s another reveal: I’m not a transsexual. I was born intersex, specifically as a tetragametic chimera. I didn’t receive confirmation of this until long after my transition. What it means is that I was originally fraternal twins, one male, one female, that fused together at the second cellular split. I’m a true hermaphrodite, with some tissue being XX and some XY. The doctor who diagnosed me also shares this condition and has since become my best friend.

When I was born, doctors sewed my labia shut and tossed a blue blanket over me. As a result, I have a blind vaginal vault that responded well to dilation, similarly to those who undergo traditional SRS. Physically, I restored my body to a hermaphroditic state, which had spiritual significance for me. When I supposedly had an appendectomy at age 30, it turned out to be a hysterectomy, and the doctors kind of freaked out.

I had originally planned on SRS and even scheduled it in Montreal, but someone, as part of a hate campaign against me, called and canceled the surgery. In response, I quickly arranged a local orchiectomy instead.

Monika: By the time the National Transgender Advocacy Coalition (NTAC) was founded in 1999 as a federal-level lobbying and advocacy organization, you were already a seasoned activist. The founding group included a powerhouse lineup of trans advocates, Dawn Wilson, Anne Casebeer, Sarah Fox, Vanessa Edwards Foster, Jessica Redman, Monica Roberts, JoAnn Roberts, and, of course, yourself. How do you remember your involvement with NTAC during those early days?

Cathryn: First of all, JoAnn Roberts was NOT an NTAC founder. It was originally the Bethesda Seven, not eight. We called ourselves that because, at the end of Lobby Days '99, the seven of us met at a restaurant in Bethesda to discuss and compare notes on the pre-lobbying we had uncovered, done by our so-called leadership in coordination with HRC, to prevent us from making any real progress.

Upon returning to Ohio, I set up a new email communication list called TransFlakes, named after the technique I proposed: setting up false lobby days and flaking out a couple of times before scheduling a real one, just to confuse the opposition and disrupt their pre-lobbying efforts. JoAnn Roberts was never a part of that. We gradually added others to TransFlakes, and our goal was to confront HRC at their events and compile what became The Big Payback, a report containing all the evidence we had gathered from ’97 to ’99 of our own leaders selling us out. I may have the only surviving copy of that report. 

When we founded NTRC, as it was originally called, it was meant to be a feminist consensus organization. I was the first facilitator, something that has effectively been erased from trans history. JoAnn Roberts joined later, as part of an effort to walk away from our original report, the very reason the organization was founded in the first place. She used her funding of our incorporation and early expenses to subvert our mission. Eventually, Dawn Wilson joined forces with her to cut out most of the original crew, especially Sarah and me, for being “too radical.”

Again, being a historian by nature, I’ve kept copies of all the communications I was involved in from that time.

 

Summer Solstice at the Serpent Mound, 1998.

 

Monika: It seems there was a deep and special bond between you and Sarah Fox, a sense of sisterhood that went beyond activism. What was it that truly cemented your friendship? Was it the mutual support during your transitions, a shared vision for change, or perhaps something more personal that connected you both on a deeper level?

Cathryn: Sarah and I “clicked” from our very first contact on CompuServe. We attended our first support group meeting together, went from zero to transitioned in sixty seconds together, and shared a deep intellectual curiosity about gender identity and gender politics. I only agreed to take over as president of the Crystal Club on the condition that she’d join me as newsletter editor and second-in-command.

Together, we worked to bring the club out of the shadows and increase public visibility for trans women. We lobbied the state legislature side by side, joined NOW together (I was already a member), and co-founded It’s Time Ohio. We were completely in sync. Sarah was also the only member of the Crystal Club who helped me move after my marriage ended and we sold the house.

We didn’t drift apart until she converted a straight woman to lesbian and they got involved. I believe they’re still together in Spain. We’re still in touch. After dragging me back into activism more than once, she eventually left it altogether after NTAC.

END OF PART 3

PART 4

 

All photos: courtesy of Cathryn Platine.

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