Monika: In those environments, how are transgender people typically perceived by the wider society?
Chloe: Through any of these lenses, our humanity is lost, and we become an abstract “threat” or an object of disdain and ridicule. And we almost always, everywhere, have our gender identity issues conflated with sexual orientation, which leads to us being universally classified as “gay.” Many of us are not gay, and even for those of us who are, our sexual orientation is far down the list compared to our existential struggle to be accepted.
Monika: On the other hand, which countries or regions stand out for showing real progress in supporting transgender rights?
Chloe: We do best in terms of inclusion and acceptance in the Scandinavian countries, in Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, and in northern Europe. Similarly, we are making great strides in parts of Latin America (Argentina, Chile, and parts of Mexico). Most of the Caribbean, Africa, the Middle East, Russia, Eastern Europe, much of Central America, and parts of Asia are toxic for us, and southern Europe (with the praiseworthy exception of Malta) is far from embracing us.
Monika: Some people argue that cisgender women gained liberation through the invention of contraceptive pills, while transgender women gained freedom through advances in cosmetic surgery, which supposedly ended the struggle with “passing” or “not passing.” What are your thoughts on this perspective?
Monika: Some people argue that cisgender women gained liberation through the invention of contraceptive pills, while transgender women gained freedom through advances in cosmetic surgery, which supposedly ended the struggle with “passing” or “not passing.” What are your thoughts on this perspective?
Chloe: That’s a discourse of the privileged, mostly from the Global North. Around the world, gender-confirming surgeries are very difficult to access, and generally very expensive, far out of the reach of most transgender people. Even for many in the Global North, we accessed these services at the cost of never being able to retire, all of our savings and whatever we could borrow went into the cost (and initial surgical discomfort) of claiming our physical integrity.
Monika: Beyond the practical barriers, how do you view the very idea of “passing” in society?
Chloe: The entire notion of “passing” (instead of just “being”) carries with it a sense of deception and avoids the more important challenge to all societies everywhere, to evolve morally to the point where gender identity is not constrained to certain proscribed norms, and where the essential humanity of all persons, no matter how they express this in terms of gender, is accommodated and even celebrated.
Monika: During your transition, did you have any transgender role models you looked up to?
Chloe: Yes. Petra Doan, a well-known transgender Quaker woman, was a strong influence. I was (and continue to be) also deeply moved by transgender authors such as Julia Serano, Jan Morris, Deirdre McCloskey, and the poet Joy Ladin. Also, the intersex Ugandan man Julius Kaggwa’s memoir From Juliet to Julius was very inspirational.
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| Chloe as a speaker at a Clinton election rally hosted by foreign policy professions, at the Cobalt Club in Washington's Dupont Circle neighborhood in 2016. |
Monika: And today, are there any transgender women whose work or courage you particularly admire?
Chloe: The most inspiration has come from the transgender women and men in the developing countries in which I have worked and traveled, their courage and determination to claim their identity despite enormous odds against them are remarkable: women like Beyoncé Karungi in Uganda, Barbra Wangare Muruga and Audrey Mbugua Ithibu in Kenya, Nisha Ayub in Malaysia, Simran Shaikh in India, Hua Boonyapisomparn from Thailand, and so many others. And there are many transgender men as well of remarkable courage and determination.
Monika: Looking back, what was the most difficult part of your coming-out journey?
Chloe: By far the hardest part was coming to peace with communicating this to my two young children.
Monika: How would you describe your relationship with fashion? What styles or outfits make you feel most yourself?
Chloe: I like to dress as well as I can afford (which is constrained), appropriate to my age, and my choices are often both femme and professional. I love dresses and skirts, and summer is my favorite season because I can wear very feminine tank tops and light cotton skirts. And (of course), I love shoes!
Monika: Many transgender women write memoirs. Have you ever considered writing one yourself?
Chloe: My memoir, titled Self-ish: A Transgender Journey Toward Wholeness, will be published in January 2018 by Red Hen Press in Los Angeles. I’ll be doing an extensive book tour to let people know about it.
Monika: Are you working on any new projects at the moment?
Chloe: I’m just starting my new full-time job at the International Center for Research on Women (ICRW), which constitutes my main “project.” I also continue to teach evening graduate courses at the University of Maryland on human dignity and human rights. And I am deeply involved in the resistance movement that is now building in this country against the Donald Trump administration.
Monika: What advice would you give to transgender girls who are struggling with gender dysphoria?
Chloe: Girls and women, many of us do not transition until later in life. I think that finding a really good counselor (trained specifically in transgender issues) is enormously helpful. If that isn’t available, then make sure that you have a number of truly outstanding friends; no one gets through this alone.
Monika: Chloe, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me!
END OF PART 2
All photos: courtesy of Chloe Schwenke.
© 2017 - Monika Kowalska
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