Monika: People often talk about being prisoners of “passing” or “non-passing” syndrome. Even with cosmetic surgeries, judgment from others can feel unavoidable. How do you think we can cope with this pressure and find peace within ourselves?
Barbara: This is a very hard question to answer, because to my knowledge, I have never had any trouble passing in public. In my opinion, there are two facets to this question. The first is how we perceive ourselves. Do we perceive ourselves as feminine enough to blend in, and do we exude poise and confidence when we are out in public? In my case, this most certainly took some time to develop. Also, have we taken steps to diminish anything that may give us away?
The second facet is, of course, how others perceive us. Common gender cues that are used when first meeting someone include hair length, clothing, makeup, speech patterns, and voice, pronouns, names, jewelry, and accessories. These are the things that I believe that we need to concentrate on in order to make ourselves as passable as possible, if that is indeed the goal.
Monika: Do you remember the first time you saw a transgender woman on TV or met anyone transgender in person that opened your eyes and allowed you to realize who you are?
Barbara: I am probably going to give away my age, but I am old enough to remember Christine Jorgensen and the publicity surrounding her. I also remember watching transgender women on the Phil Donahue Show, which was quite popular when I was growing up, since it originated in Dayton, Ohio, where I attended law school. I was drawn to any talk or other show that was going to feature transgender women, although I did not understand what it meant at the time.
Monika: Many of us rely on our transgender sisters for support during the early stages of transition. Did you have a circle of trans women around you who helped you navigate that time, and what did those relationships mean to you?
Barbara: Yes, I did. Even before I fully transitioned, I began attending a weekly Friday night dinner with other transgender women. For a time, I received a lot of support and encouragement from these transgender women, and they became very close friends. However, eventually, it all blew up, and I was no longer invited. I also received support from my crossdresser friend and her wife, whom I still stay in touch with.
After I transitioned, the support just drifted away, and I no longer have any really close transgender friends. However, most of the time, I am readily accepted by cisgender women and others, so now support from trans friends is not really needed. I have found that society has required me to make a choice to socialize in the transgender world or primarily in the cisgender world, but not both. Because I have a wife who supports me and the tools to be a very attractive and interesting woman, people are often drawn to me. I have had to leave some old relationships behind, but I have found many times that new people that I meet are very accepting.
Monika: The political and social climate for transgender women seems to shift constantly, sometimes offering hope, other times creating fear. How do you personally view the current situation for trans women in your country, especially in light of your own experience navigating identity, advocacy, and public perception?
Barbara: I prefer to talk about politics as little as possible, because of the ramifications that are faced by people in my country right now who speak out in a way that is perceived as wrong or anti-trans. I am not anti-trans. Perhaps for the first time in my life, I have fully and proudly embraced my identity as a queer Appalachian, which I am frequently writing about, including a new poem entitled “Queer in the Holler.” I would like to write a chapbook around that poem.
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| "I like to dress as feminine as possible." |
I have mixed feelings about the present situation in the United States. Sometimes, I think that the transgender activists take things much too far, and this does a disservice to those of us who just want to live our lives as transgender women. We are already seeing a backlash, not just from the cisgender community and the conservative Republicans, but from others in the LGBTQ+ community as well.
Monika: Fashion is such a fun form of self-expression, especially during and after transition. Would you say you enjoy playing with fashion? What kinds of outfits make you feel most like yourself? Are there any favorite colors, styles, or trends that you find yourself always reaching for?
Barbara: I like to dress as feminine as possible, which has evolved over the years. Pink has always been my favorite color, so I tend to gravitate to anything pink. I still like to wear dresses, especially sundresses in the summer, and I like to dress up more formally sometimes when we are going out to a concert or dinner. However, I also dress more casually as well in jeans, leggings, pants, and feminine tops.
Monika: When I was younger, I used to copy my sister and mother, and later, practically every stylish woman I saw, trying so hard to look 100% feminine. My cis girlfriends would tease me that I was aiming to become a woman who doesn’t actually exist! Did you ever find yourself chasing that same “ideal woman” image, especially in the early days of your transition?
Barbara: I was extremely lucky to have my wife, Marilyn, as my fashion consultant among many other things. We have been married for almost forty-two years. I modeled myself after her to such an extent that we are often asked if we are twins or sisters.
Like you, my desire was to look 100% feminine, and I suppose to a certain extent I am trying to be a woman who does not exist in reality. That is why I have toned down my clothing over the years and tend to dress more casually. I learned a lot from my wife, but also from just observing other cisgender women on television and in public.
Monika: When I came out at work, some of my male colleagues suddenly started treating me as if transitioning had somehow lowered my IQ, like femininity and competence can’t coexist. Have you ever faced anything similar? Do you think this kind of treatment stems more from being a woman, being transgender, or a frustrating mix of both?
Barbara: I retired prior to my transition, so I did not have this experience in the workplace. However, I have noticed subtle and not so subtle ways in which I have been treated by men since my transition. For example, I recently wrote an essay that I posted on my website entitled “As a Transsexual Woman, I am Marked,” in which I discuss patronizing and sexually explicit comments and friend requests that I started to receive from men on social media. Some of the comments indicate that I am being perceived as a woman. They make sexually explicit comments about what they would like to do to certain body parts that I don’t even have. I am not sure whether these comments are based on the perception that I am a woman or because I am transgender. I suspect that it is a little of both, and it is also an indication that these men really do not take the time to read my profile before sending their comments.
Monika: What advice would you give to transgender women navigating the often daunting world of job hunting? Are there any strategies or mindset shifts you think could help us feel more empowered during the process?
Barbara: Since I have not had to seek employment as a transgender woman, I am not sure that I am qualified to give advice. However, I will pass on a suggestion that a friend recently made about submitting my work to publishers. He said to phrase it in such a way that I am offering them an opportunity to publish my work. My suggestion would be to project confidence in the interview and convey the idea that they are offering the potential employer an opportunity to hire an extremely qualified and competent employee.
Monika: Do you stay connected with the LBGTQ+ community these days? In what ways have you found yourself contributing or getting involved?
Barbara: Yes, I would say that I am involved. I have had work published in LBGTQ+ anthologies and The Buckeye Flame, which is Ohio’s weekly LGBTQ+ publication. I also wrote the introduction for the 2021 Akron Pride Festival Guide, and my poem “Rainbow on the Bathroom Rug: Akron Pride” was published in the 2022 Akron Pride Festival Guide.
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| "The happiest day of my life was when we renewed our vows and got remarried as two women on my sixty-fifth birthday." |
Monika: How has love shaped your journey? What role has it played in your life, especially through the ups and downs of your transition?
Barbara: Love and intimacy, not necessarily sexual intimacy, are extremely important to me. My wife, Marilyn, and I have been married for almost forty-two years, and we are closer now than we have been at any other point in our relationship. We have had many challenges in our marriage, including my transition, depression and suicide, and alcoholism. It was our mutual love, respect, and trust in and for each other that enabled us to survive as a couple. We even filmed a video and posted it on YouTube about how to have a successful transgender marriage. The happiest day of my life was when we renewed our vows and got remarried as two women on my sixty-fifth birthday. That was much more meaningful to me than our original marriage.
Monika: What would you say to transgender women who are afraid to take that first step toward transition? What helped you overcome your own fears?
Barbara: My advice would be first and foremost that it is never too late to transition. However, each person’s journey is unique, and they have to move at their own pace and do what is workable for them at that point in their lives. It would not have been feasible for me to transition before I did. I would also strongly advise finding a qualified gender counselor. That was so very important in my own journey and my decision to start HRT and to ultimately transition. Finally, doing research, reading about gender issues and those who have successfully transitioned, and finding support, whether online or in person, are also very important.
Monika: My pen-friend Gina Grahame once told me that we shouldn’t limit our potential based on how we were born or by comparing ourselves to what other transgender people do. She said our dreams don’t end on an operating table, they actually begin there. Do you feel the same way?
Barbara: I do agree that we should not let who we are limit us in any way or allow others to put us in a box based on our identity. I also realize that, at least in my case, that is easier said than done. This is something that I think about almost every day. How can I expand my horizons, explore things outside my comfort zone, and obtain wider recognition as a poet and writer.
Monika: Barbara, it was a pleasure to interview you. Thanks a lot!
Barbara: It was my pleasure, Monika. I found your questions to be very compelling and perceptive, and I discovered things about myself as I responded to them. In fact, when my wife read through the interview, she asked me if I realized what an interesting person I am.
Thank you so much for reaching out to me and for this opportunity to share my story with a wider audience. Please keep in touch with me.
END OF PART 2
All photos: courtesy of Barbara Marie Minney.
© 2023 - Monika Kowalska
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