Monika: You were married and had children before your transition. How did your wife respond to your decision to transition, and how has it affected your relationship with your family?
Jenny-Anne: I told my wife about my trans status very early in our marriage, and in return for not transitioning while we were still together, I had reserved time each week to be Jenny-Anne. After our marriage ended in 2002, following 31 years together, I finally felt free to chart my own course, and I transitioned fully in 2007. Unfortunately, my ex-wife is still cross with me, almost 15 years since we stopped living together, and does not recognize my legal status as a woman. I'm very sad about this and feel a great deal of sympathy for her. It wasn’t her fault that she married a transsexual woman, and I understand that my children also didn’t expect to have a transgender parent. Although it’s devastating that they no longer speak to me, I do try to understand their perspective.
Monika: Then you met Elen, your current partner, who is also a transgender woman. Was it love at first sight, or did your relationship blossom over time?
Jenny-Anne: We were certainly immediately attracted to each other and quickly became close friends, as we were both in other relationships at the time. After about a year of corresponding and meeting regularly as friends, we both became free to begin a relationship, and we pretty much became a couple instantly. That was nearly nine years ago. After I received my Gender Recognition Certificate in early 2011, we got married that October, and we’re still blissfully happy together.
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| Developing her own style in the 1990's (1998). |
Monika: What is your overall perspective on the current situation of transgender women in the United Kingdom? Do you feel that progress has been made?
Jenny-Anne: In the UK, the situation for trans women is much better than it was when I first presented as female in 1970. There’s significantly less discrimination now and much stronger legal protections in most areas of daily life. However, the campaign to win hearts and minds and to end all forms of discrimination and transphobia is still ongoing. I believe real change will only come when we educate children about gender diversity and inclusion as part of their equality and diversity curriculum. That’s when we’ll truly begin to minimise these issues.
Monika: In the United States, we’ve seen a growing number of transgender women coming out publicly, some even gaining celebrity status, like Lana Wachowski in film, Jenna Talackova in modeling, Kate Bornstein in academia, Laura Jane Grace in music, and Candis Cayne in acting. Are you witnessing a similar trend in the United Kingdom?
Jenny-Anne: Oh yes, we now have far more people coming out and being “out and proud.” Quite a few have had cross-hormone treatment and gender confirmation surgery during their teenage years, which has helped them be more easily accepted by society. We're also beginning to see individuals who received puberty blockers early on, many of whom are undetectable as trans, even to other trans people.
We do have a number of prominent figures, such as Jackie Green, who had her surgery at 16 and went on to become a model and a runner-up in the Miss England competition.
There’s also Kate Woods, a high-profile professional in the IT sector; Paris Lees, a journalist and broadcaster; Sarah Brown, a local politician and former Lord Mayor of Cambridge; and several people from the television programme My Transsexual Summer.
In academia, we have Professors Stephen Whittle and Alexandra Sharpe. In activism and media, there’s Christine Burns and Leah True, as well as the legendary April Ashley, who remains active in the fight for full trans inclusion. We’ve also had visibility through reality TV winners like Luke Anderson and Nadia from Big Brother. Not to forget Grayson Perry, the artist; Lily Savage, the drag performer; and Fay Presto, the magician.
Monika: In your view, why is there so much hatred directed toward transgender women? I often feel that trans women face more hostility than trans men. Do you think there's a particular reason for this difference?
Jenny-Anne: That’s a very difficult question. Over the 40+ years I’ve been out as a trans woman, acceptance has improved beyond recognition. The incidence of serious discrimination and violence, in my experience, has decreased. That’s not to say it doesn’t still happen far too often, but there has definitely been progress. I think the hostility comes from the fact that we challenge society’s conventional understanding of what it means to be male or female. We make some people feel uncomfortable or even scared because they don't understand us, and instead of trying to learn, they find it easier to attack or ridicule us.
In my experience, women are often more accepting. They tend to see the person and value them for who they are, not just what they are. Men, on the other hand, often seem less accepting, some see women primarily as potential sexual partners and feel betrayed or angry if they discover that the woman they’re engaging with is trans.
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| Her favourite summer dress for the Miss Golden Sparkle Photo Shoot 2005. |
This fear and misunderstanding can lead to aggressive anger and, tragically, even physical assaults. In the worst cases, this results in horrifying violence and murders of unimaginable brutality. For example, there have been trans women who were stabbed over 70 times or beaten to death with fire extinguishers, some even decapitated. In certain cases, the violence inflicted upon trans women rivals that of ethnic cleansing.
I believe part of the reason behind this hatred is that our very existence challenges people’s own understanding of gender identity and sexuality, realities they may not be ready or willing to confront.
On average, I think trans women suffer more, and for longer, than trans men. Many trans men transition in ways that allow them to blend in with society and become largely unrecognizable as trans to the average person. In contrast, trans women often remain visibly trans for much longer, or even for life, which sadly makes them more frequent targets of discrimination and violence.
In addition, women generally have more flexibility in how they dress and express themselves. Society often admires women who adopt masculine styles or behaviors. Conversely, a trans woman may be seen through the lens of harmful stereotypes like "a man in a dress," which fuels ridicule and prejudice. There’s also very little public understanding or acknowledgment of female cross-dressers or transvestites, making visibility even more lopsided.
That said, I’m also acutely aware that trans men, especially during early transition, can experience severe discrimination, bullying, and even deadly violence. No one in our community is immune to harm.
Monika: Do you think we’ll live to see the day when a transgender woman becomes the UK Prime Minister?
Jenny-Anne: Given the current political climate, I think it's possible that we’ll see a few transgender Members of Parliament in the coming years. However, I don’t expect to see a transgender woman become Prime Minister within the next 20 to 30 years. It’s more likely we’ll first see a gay Prime Minister, and perhaps even a transgender man in the role before a trans woman is elected.
Monika: What role does religion play in your life today?
Jenny-Anne: I was raised as a strict Roman Catholic, but found the Church unaccepting of me as a transsexual woman. However, my Christian faith has always been very important to me, so I was delighted to discover the Metropolitan Community Church (MCC) in late 1998, where I was accepted fully for who I am.
I had been quite active in the Catholic Church, so I feel truly blessed to have become a pastoral leader in our MCC congregation. I regularly lead services and celebrate communion. I'm also part of the church’s governing board and responsible for our ministry to trans people. In fact, it was through the church that I was able to found our support group, TransForum Manchester.
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| Opening the very first Trans Memorial Garden in the UK (and probably in the world) at Sparkle 2013 in Manchester. |
Monika: Are you involved in politics or lobbying efforts? Do you believe that transgender women can make a meaningful impact in the political sphere?
Jenny-Anne: I believe that both trans women and trans men can play vital roles in politics, helping to drive change and increase understanding of trans people and our specific needs.
We lobbied the Government Equalities Office with the Trans* Statement of Needs, which partially informed the first UK cross-government Transgender Equality Action Plan in December 2011. I was very proud to serve as the convener for several of the workshops that shaped the statement, and I continue to lobby for progress, both on the government’s plan and on the unmet points from the original statement.
I also aim to highlight at least one campaign on my Facebook page and Twitter every day to raise awareness and encourage others to get involved. Many of these causes are not specifically trans-related, as I feel it’s important to show that we are part of the wider community too.
As a member of the Parliamentary Forum on Gender Identity and a participant in consultations with NHS England and the Department of Health, I’ve had the chance to ask senior civil servants some very tough questions. If we’re dissatisfied with the government’s response, our chair can escalate those concerns in the House of Lords. In the past, Stephen Whittle, Christine Burns, and others played key roles in pushing for legislative progress, including the Gender Recognition Act of 2004.
More recently, Sarah Brown, Helen Belcher, and others have continued the work, including contributions to the Leveson Inquiry into press misconduct and responses to the Same-Sex Marriage Act of 2013, which, unfortunately, introduced new layers of discrimination against UK transsexual people, especially those with or seeking a Gender Recognition Certificate.
We’re also actively challenging the deeply concerning court rulings that convicted three trans people of “obtaining sex by deception” simply for not disclosing their trans status before consensual intimacy. All three were imprisoned and placed on the sex offenders register for life. We are raising these injustices with the Ministries of Justice in both England and Scotland.
I believe the real breakthrough in politics will come when we have an openly trans Member of Parliament. Perhaps Sarah Brown will be the first!
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| Photo shoot in our Community House Garden Dec 2011 wearing her favourite Astrakhan Winter Coat. |
Monika: What are your thoughts on transgender beauty pageants? Do you think they empower participants or are they exploitative in some way?
Jenny-Anne: I believe it's entirely up to the participants whether or not they choose to take part, based on what they feel comfortable with. There are certainly pageants that can be exploitative, and those should be avoided.
That said, I can’t be against them entirely, as I was crowned Miss Golden Sparkle in 2005 and have participated in other pageants when I was younger. I also occasionally act as a judge for the current Miss Sparkle and Miss Golden Sparkle competitions.
Monika: Do you have a passion for fashion? How would you describe your personal style? Are there any particular outfits, colours, or trends you gravitate towards?
Jenny-Anne:Yes, like my most women I love fashion and making a special effort to look good for Weddings, parties etc. My style is smart casual for everyday wear and I usually wear long skirts and loose tops at home, Smart slacks and tailored tops when I do presentations, workshops or consultation meetings.
I also enjoy dressing-up for parties and community social events. I think it's very important to develop you own style and not copy others, though of course you can learn from others example.
Monika: Many transgender women write memoirs to share their journeys. Have you ever considered writing a book about your own experiences?
Jenny-Anne: Yes, I think most people have that thought at some point, but I’m so busy with my community work that I don’t have time to write outside of that. If I ever did write a book, it would probably be for my own amusement, a way to document my past life.
I don’t imagine my story is interesting enough to publish or to share with others, as the story of transitioning as a transgender woman has been told so many times already. I do believe we need more stories about transgender men and the experiences of those who are genderqueer or non-binary.
Monika: Would you say that you’re truly happy now, after your transition?
Jenny-Anne: Oh yes, Since transitioning, I'm happier than I’ve ever been in my entire life.
Monika: Jenny-Anne, Thank you very much for your answers!
Jenny-Anne: Thank you so much for asking me to participate in this interview.
All the photos: courtesy of Jenny-Anne Bishop.
© 2013 - Monika Kowalska and Jenny-Anne Bishop.
Other publications about Jenny-Anne Bishop:
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