Interview with Jenny-Anne Bishop - Part 2

Monika: You were married as a man with children. What was your wife’s reaction to your transition?

Jenny-Anne: I told my wife about my Trans status very early in our marriage, and in return for NOT transitioning whilst we were still married, I had reserved time to be Jenny-Anne each week.

After my marriage ended in 2002 after 31 years being married I did feel free to plot my own course and transitioned fully in 2007. My ex-wife is still cross with me almost 15 years since we stopped living together which means she does not recognise my now legal status as a woman.

I'm very sad and feel a lot of sympathy for her as it is not her fault in any way that she married a Transsexual woman, nor did my children expect to have a Transsexual parent. So although I am devastated that they won't talk to me any more, I do have some understanding for their position.

Monika: Then you met Elen, your current partner, also a transgender woman. Was it the proverbial love at first sight?

Jenny-Anne: We were certainly immediately attracted to each other and fast became firm friends as we were both in other relationships. After about a year of corresponding and regularly meeting as friends, we finally both became free to start a relationship and pretty well became an instant couple. That was approaching 9 years ago and following my attaining my gender recognition certificate in early 2011 we got married the following October and are still blissfully happy as a couple.

Developing her own style
in the 1990's (1998).

Monika: What is your general view on the present situation of transgender women in the United Kingdom?

Jenny-Anne: In the UK, the situation for Trans* women is much better than when I first presented as female in 1970, and there is much less discrimination and much stronger legal protection in most areas of daily life.

However, the campaign to win hearts and minds and end all discrimination and Transphobia goes on. Only when we can educate the children at school as part of their equality and diversity learning will we really minimise these problems.

Monika: In USA there are more and more transgender ladies coming out. Unlike in the previous years some of them have status of celebrities or are really well-known, just to mention Lana Wachowski in film-directing, Jenna Talackova in modelling, Kate Bornstein in academic life, Laura Jane Grace in music or Candis Cayne in acting. Do you witness the same trend in the United Kingdom?

Jenny-Anne: Oh yes we have far more people coming out and being “out and proud”. Quite a few have had cross hormone treatment and Gender Conformation Surgery in their teenage years and so are much better assimilated by society. We are also just starting to see people who have had the benefit of puberty blocking hormones who are often undetectable as Trans even by other Trans people.

We also have similar people, Jackie Green who had her surgery at 16 and is now a model and was a runner-up in the Miss England Competition last year, Kate Woods who is a professional high profile woman in IT, Paris Lees who is a journalist and broadcaster, Sarah Brown who is a local politician and former lord mayor of Cambridge, several members of the Television Programme My Transsexual Summer, Professors Steven Whittle and Alexandra Sharpe in Academic life.

Christian Burns the Trans Activist, Leah True the model, April Ashley who is still active in the campaigns for full inclusion of Trans People Luke Anderson and Nadia who both won “Big Brother Shows. Greyson Perry the potter, Lily Savage the entertainer and Fay Presto the magician.

Monika: Could you tell me why there is much hatred toward transgender women? I have a feeling that this hatred is stronger towards transgender women then transgender men. Any reason why?

Jenny-Anne: That's a very difficult question. I think over the 40+ years I've been out as a Trans Woman acceptance has improved out of all recognition and the incidence of bad discrimination and violence have in my experience decreased, that's not to say it doesn’t still exist far too frequently, but that it is improving.

I think that it happens because we challenge the average person's understanding of what it is to be Male or Female, we make people feel uncomfortable and scared of something they don't understand. To relieve the discomfort it's easier to attack us than to try and understand.

In my experience Woman are often more accepting as they tend to see the person and value them for who they are, not what they are. Men on the other hand often seem less accepting and just see women in particular as potential sex partners and so are bitterly disappointed if the woman they are interacting with turns out to be trans.

Her favourite summer dress for
the Miss Golden Sparkle Photo Shoot 2005.

This can lead to aggressive anger and physical assault, which in the worst cases can result in dreadful violence or even murders of unbelievable ferocity. For example, a Trans Woman Stabbed over 70 times, or beaten to death with a Fire Extinguisher and then de-decapitated. Sometimes even more violent than ethnic cleansing I think it's also because it raises other people's own understanding of their gender identity and sexuality which they don't want to face up to!

On Average I think Trans Women suffer more and for longer than Trans men as the men often transition well and just disappear to be undetectable by the average person and so are not seen as Trans. Also women have greater freedom of dress and presentation, and are often admired for aspiring to male dress and values.

Also in general being seen as a butch lesbian is much more acceptable than being seen as a “Man in a Dress” there is not really public perception of a female transvestite or cross-dresser as such.

In many cases Trans Women are much more visible, often for the whole of their lives. I am also sensitive to the fact that in the early days of transition Transmen can get awful discrimination and bullying, and are assaulted and murdered for being Trans too.

Monika: Do you think that in our lifetime we could live to the day when a transgender lady could become the UK Prime Minister?

Jenny-Anne: In the current political climate I think it's possible we will see a few Trans Members of Parliament's in the next few years, but I don't envisage a Trans Female Prime Minister within the next 20-30 years. We are more likely to see a Gay Prime minister and then possibly a Trans Male Prime minister.

Monika: What is the role of religion in your life?

Jenny-Anne: I was raised as a strict Roman Catholic, but found them unaccepting of me as a Transsexual woman. My Christian faith is very important to me, so I was delighted to find the Metropolitan Community Church (MCC) in late 1998, which simply accepts me as the person I am.

I had been quite active in the Catholic Church and so feel really blessed that I've been able to become a pastoral leader in our church, regularly leading the service or celebrating communion. I'm also on the church governing board and responsible for our ministry to Trans people. It was the church which helped me found our support group TransForum Manchester transforum.org.

Opening the very first Trans Memorial Garden  in the UK
(and probably in the world) at Sparkle 2013 in Manchester.

Monika: Are you active in politics? Do you participate in any lobbying campaigns? Do you think transgender women can make a difference in politics?

Jenny-Anne: I think that both Trans women and Trans men can play vital roles in politics to engender change and better understanding of trans* and our specific needs.

We lobbied the Government equalities office with the Trans* Statement of needs which partially fed the first British cross government Transgender Equality Action Plan in December 2011.

I was very proud to be the convener for several of the workshops to form the statement and continue to lobby for progress on both the Government plan and those parts of the needs statement not yet included in the plan. I also try to have at least one campaign highlighted for action on my Facebook page and tweeted every day to raise awareness and try to get others involved. Many are not trans related, but just show we are part of the wider community.
As a member of the Parliamentary Forum on Gender Identity and part of the consultation team to NHS England and The Department of Health I get the opportunity to ask senior civil servants some very awkward questions, which our chair can raise in the legislature (House of Lords) if we are not happy with the government response! In the past Stephen Whittle, Christine Burns and others were key in politics to make change happen, including the Gender Reassignment Act in 2004.
More recently Sarah Brown, Helen Belcher and others have taken up the baton at the Leverson enquiry into Press misdemeanour's in the UK and the recent Same Sex Marriage Act 2013, which has enacted additional discrimination against UK Transsexual people, especially those with or trying to obtain a gender recognition certificate.
We will continue to fight this and especially fight the court decisions that have convicted 3 trans people of obtaining sex by deception for not telling their partner they were Trans prior to intimacy, even though that intimacy was consensual. All 3 have been sent to prison and have had to sign the sex offenders register for life !! We are raising this with the Ministry of Justice in England and Scotland. I think the big change in politics will be when we have an openly Trans MP. Perhaps Sarah Brown might be the first!!

Photo shoot in our Community
 House Garden Dec 2011 wearing
her favourite Astrakhan Winter Coat.

Monika: What do you think about transgender beauty pageants?

Jenny-Anne:My own view is it's entirely up to the participants to take part or not as they feel comfortable. There are pageants which are exploitative and should be avoided.

I can't be against them as I was Miss Golden Sparkle in 2005 and have taken part in other pageants when I was younger and sometimes act as a judge for the current Miss Sparkle and Miss Golden Sparkle competitions.

Monika: Do you like fashion? What kind of outfits do you usually wear? Any special fashion designs, colours or trends?

Jenny-Anne:Yes, like my most women I love fashion and making a special effort to look good for Weddings, parties etc. My style is smart casual for everyday wear and I usually wear long skirts and loose tops at home, Smart slacks and tailored tops when I do presentations, workshops or consultation meetings.

I also enjoy dressing-up for parties and community social events. I think it's very important to develop you own style and not copy others, though of course you can learn from others example.

Monika: Many transgender ladies write their memoirs. Have you ever thought about writing such a book yourself?

Jenny-Anne: Yes, I think everyone has that thought, but I'm so busy I don't get time to write outside of my community work. I think if I ever did write a book, it would be for my own amusement and as a way of documenting my past life.

I don't imagine my life is interesting enough to publish it and bore other people with it, as the Transitioning story for Trans Woman has been well told so many times already! We could do with the Trans male story being told more often, and the experiences of those who are gender Queer or non-gendered.

Monika: Could you say that you are a happy woman now?

Jenny-Anne: Oh yes, Since transitioning, I'm happier than I’ve ever been in my entire life.

Monika: Jenny-Anne, Thank you very much for your answers!

Jenny-Anne: Thank you so much for asking me to participate in this interview.

All the photos: courtesy of Jenny-Anne Bishop.

© 2013 - Monika Kowalska and Jenny-Anne Bishop.