Interview with Julie Nemecek

Rev. Dr. Julie Nemecek is one of Michigan’s leading voices on transgender issues, an educator, ordained Baptist minister and longtime activist. Julie served as senior pastor of three churches for more than 20 years before moving into higher education, eventually reaching the rank of associate professor at Spring Arbor University and Lansing Community College. She retired from teaching in 2013, but continues to speak at colleges, churches and LGBT events, as well as providing training and consulting services. Julie became a national figure in 2007 after Spring Arbor University dismissed her following her decision to transition. Her case attracted extensive media attention and made her one of the more visible transgender people in America at a time when transgender stories were still rarely represented in mainstream public life. For Julie, however, becoming visible was never simply about telling her own story. Rather than retreat from public life after losing her position, she turned her experience into advocacy and began using her voice to challenge discrimination and encourage greater understanding of transgender people. She became co-executive director of Michigan Equality and has served on the national boards of Soulforce and PFLAG. She is also an advisory board member of Trans Youth Family Allies and an honorary board member of Inclusive Justice Michigan.

 

For Julie, faith has never been something she needed to leave behind in order to become herself. As a lifelong Christian and ordained minister, she has spoken about her transgender identity as part of the diversity of God's creation and has worked to show that Christianity can be a source of acceptance rather than rejection for transgender people. Her own experience of coming out also strengthened her relationship with her wife, Joanne, and deepened rather than diminished her faith. Her story therefore reaches beyond the question of transition itself, touching on the possibility of reconciling one's identity, spiritual beliefs, family life and public work. Julie and Joanne have been married for more than four decades and have three sons, four grandsons and a granddaughter. Her life has included a remarkable variety of experiences: she has delivered a baby, climbed a mountain, gone spelunking, parachuted from a plane, cooked a 12-course dinner, shot a 78 in golf, travelled internationally and visited 48 U.S. states. Behind the minister, educator and activist is clearly a woman who has approached life with considerable curiosity, courage and a willingness to try almost anything. It is a pleasure to welcome Rev. Dr. Julie Nemecek to The Heroines of My Life.

 

Monika: Julie, welcome! It's wonderful to have you with us today.

Julie: Hello Monika!

Monika: To start, tell us a little about yourself.

Julie: I am 63 and retired, but still active for LGBTQ rights and equality. I will have been married for 42 years this June. We have 3 boys, all married, and 5 grandchildren with another on the way.

 

 

Monika: Your dismissal from Spring Arbor University after you announced your transition made headlines in 2007. Do you still feel bitter about that act of discrimination?

Julie: Not really. I have had a lot of support from former colleagues and students. It was mainly the Board that had issues, fearing lost revenue and/or students. I worked for 18 months AFTER they knew I was trans and transitioning.

We reached a mediated settlement to my Equal Employment Opportunity Complaint after 13 hours of negotiation over two days. They knew they were in a difficult position because they taught the standards of care that I was following and had admitted a transgender student to a graduate program based on her Christian witness.

One positive outcome was that their act of discrimination brought me over 100 media interviews in 2007, including Newsweek, the Wall Street Journal, Fox News, and even Christianity Today. This, along with two other highly publicized trans stories in early 2007, had a collective impact of bringing trans issues to the forefront of public thought.

Monika: Your commitment to LGBTQ rights runs deep. Could you walk me through some of your initiatives?

Julie: Be glad to. I have served on the national boards of PFLAG and Soulforce. I was the first trans person to be the executive director for a statewide LGBTQ rights organization (Michigan Equality, which later merged with another organization). I have spoken at most of the state universities in Michigan (7/8), some of the private colleges, and a handful of community colleges.

My spouse and I have told our story at more than two dozen churches, where I also often preached. I have spoken from the steps of the State Capitol Building to a crowd of over 3,000. I have lobbied at the local, state, and federal levels. I have communicated with hundreds of transgender people in person and via email. I do what I can to help people understand transgender issues.

Monika: As an ordained Baptist minister and Presbyterian Church elder, you have surely heard this one before. Why is God so merciless towards transgender people, placing their minds in bodies of the opposite gender?

Julie: I don’t believe God was merciless or cruel in creating transgender people. I believe God made trans people as part of the rich diversity of God’s creation. The first Gentile convert to Christianity was a gender variant person, a eunuch (Acts 8).

 

At an LGBT New Year's Eve party.

 

Monika: Lisa Salazar, one of my previous guests, pointed out that transgender people are said to be among the least likely to become involved in religious institutions like church, since most have been rejected and judged by their Christian families, friends, and faith communities. Would you agree?

Julie: I agree in part. Many churches have been willfully ignorant and very cruel. Joanne and I were asked to leave the church where I usually preached whenever the pastor was ill or absent.

They were unwilling to try to understand the diagnosis or the standards of care. Fortunately, a former colleague of mine asked her pastor if we would be welcome at her church. The pastor said, “By all means.” We began attending there shortly before our story made the front page of the local newspaper. When the story came out, we were warmly welcomed. We became members shortly thereafter and now both of us serve as elders.

Monika: How does the Presbyterian Church generally view the transgender phenomenon?

Julie: Better than most churches. I know of two transgender pastors in the denomination (PCUSA) and there is a very active group of people pushing for more open and affirming churches receptive to LGBTQ people.

Monika: Is there anything in the Bible that refers to transgenderism?

Julie: Like many things in today’s culture, there is nothing specifically about transgender people in the Bible. That said, the Apostle Paul noted that for those in Christ “male and female” no longer make a difference.

Monika: When you were transitioning, were there any transgender role models you could look up to?

Julie: No, other than from books. I later met the two authors who had been of greatest help to me, Donna Rose and Jen Boylan. Both were very gracious and humble people.

 

At a Transgender Day of Remembrance service in 2012.

 

Monika: Looking back at your coming out, what was the hardest part?

Julie: The loss of some “friends” was difficult, but compensated for by new friends. Being considered a “heroine” to others was very uncomfortable to me. I was just being me.

Donna Rose actually helped me come to peace with the “heroine” role. She said some people need others out a little farther ahead of them, and to them, you are a heroine. With that helpful understanding, I got over being uncomfortable about being addressed that way.

Monika: How would you describe the current situation of transgender women in American society?

Julie: It is getting better, and it is happening much faster than gay/lesbian acceptance happened. Some states have moved to provide equal protection in employment and housing for transgender people, as have most of the top businesses in the country. The rate of change is astounding.

Monika: Some say transgenderism is the new frontier for human rights. Do you agree?

Julie: U.S. Vice President Joe Biden called transgender rights exactly that. Like many frontiers, this one is still often rough and hard-going, but to be recognized as a new frontier is powerful and encouraging.

Monika: Turning to politics, are you active in it, and do you take part in any lobbying campaigns? Do you believe transgender women can make a difference there?

Julie: I am very active in politics and do believe transgender people can make a difference. Every year the National Center for Transgender Equality has a lobby day in Washington, D.C. Well over a hundred trans people descend on the offices of Congress to tell our stories, advocate for rights, and try to make a difference. Yes, we can make a difference.

 

On a trip to Antigua, Guatemala.

 

Monika: What role does love play in your life?

Julie: My spouse, while remaining a woman, had to “transition” with me for our marriage to remain intact. She had a hard time, at first, with the idea that others would consider her a lesbian, but she was able to move beyond that so much so that she changed careers from surgical nursing to social work by adding two more degrees and earning her Master’s in Social Work at the age of 60.

Her career goal is to work primarily with transgender people and their families. She is an awesome woman. We are more in love than ever.

Monika: Do you enjoy fashion? Tell me about the outfits you usually wear, and any designers, colors, or trends you favor.

Julie: I do try to keep up with my outfits, but at my age, fashion is more about comfort than style.

Monika: Many transgender women put their stories into memoirs. Have you considered writing a book of your own?

Julie: I have about 80 pages done and am SLOWLY working on such a book.

Monika: What comes next for you right now, and where do you see yourself in five to seven years?

Julie: I expect to continue to speak out, inform, and lobby as much as I can. Honestly, I am hoping that others will move to the forefront and I can support them from behind the scenes.

Monika: What advice would you give to transgender girls who are struggling with gender dysphoria?

Julie: Three things: (1) get trans-informed professional help, (2) get to know other trans people (even if it is just by email), and (3) be who you are.

Monika: Julie, thank you so much for this conversation and for sharing your story with us.

Julie: My pleasure.

All the photos: courtesy of Julie Nemecek.

© 2014 - Monika Kowalska

 

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