Some women blossom in silence, their beauty unfurling like a night-blooming flower, unseen by the world until one brave moment of moonlight reveals everything. Debra Soshoux is such a woman. An elegant force of resilience and reflection, Debra’s journey has traced a path through art, activism, and the fragile truth of becoming oneself. Known to many through Beautiful Daughters, the groundbreaking documentary that captured the first all-transgender performance of The Vagina Monologues, and through LOGO’s TransAmerican Love Story, Debra is much more than the roles and credits that line her résumé. She is a witness to transformation, not only her own, but of a culture slowly learning to listen to the voices it once tried to silence. In her, there is wit and wonder, heartbreak and healing.
From overcoming stage fright to performing alongside Jane Fonda, from early moments of self-doubt to the unapologetic embrace of her womanhood, Debra’s life has been a series of quiet revolutions. Her reflections echo with hard-earned wisdom: that womanhood is not gifted but claimed, that visibility is vulnerability, and that love, both for others and for oneself, demands the deepest courage. She speaks with the grace of someone who has walked through fire but never burned. A lawyer by training, a storyteller by instinct, and a romantic at heart, Debra lives not just with authenticity, but with artistry. In this conversation, we are invited not just to know her story, but to feel its rhythm, to witness the music in her voice, and the poetry in her truth. It is my honor to introduce you to Debra Soshoux.
Monika: Debra, it is truly my pleasure and honor to welcome you today. You’ve long been a cherished voice in our community, as a transgender advocate and activist, and as someone known for your powerful work in Beautiful Daughters, the documentary chronicling the first all-transgender production of The Vagina Monologues, as well as LOGO’s TransAmerican Love Story. Thank you so much for joining me.
Debra: Hi Monika! Thank you for that lovely introduction, and for inviting me into this thoughtful space you’ve created. It’s always a joy to be part of conversations like this, there’s honestly nothing better than two ladies like us sitting down to talk, share, and reflect. I already feel like we’re in for something meaningful.
Monika: In 2004, something groundbreaking unfolded on the V-Day stage, The Vagina Monologues performed for the first time by an all-trans women cast, including icons like Lynn Conway, Andrea James, Christine Beatty, Verba Deo, Calpernia Addams, Leslie Townsend, Valerie Spencer, and Asia Vitale. It was a moment of bold reclamation, art, and visibility. How did this historic project first find its way to you?
Debra: By chance, on the Internet. I was instantly excited when I read about it, but I’m not a trained actor, I had terrible stage fright (still do), and after laser voice surgery my voice was very weak and uneven, so I never thought I’d be in the cast. I knew I wanted to be part of it, and it was in LA! Then my friend Christine auditioned, so I did too, and voilà! I got an absolutely plum role as the old lady.
Debra: By chance, on the Internet. I was instantly excited when I read about it, but I’m not a trained actor, I had terrible stage fright (still do), and after laser voice surgery my voice was very weak and uneven, so I never thought I’d be in the cast. I knew I wanted to be part of it, and it was in LA! Then my friend Christine auditioned, so I did too, and voilà! I got an absolutely plum role as the old lady.
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| At The Vagina Monologues cast party. L-R: Marci Bowers, DeeDee Flores, Leslie Townsend, Debra Soshoux, Cheryl Hoffman, Valerie Spencer. |
Monika: The Vagina Monologues, written by Eve Ensler and first performed Off-Broadway in the 1990s, weaves together a chorus of women’s voices, stories of love, sex, trauma, pleasure, and birth, each rooted in the symbolic power of the vagina. It's a tapestry of femininity, both raw and revolutionary. When this narrative was reimagined with an all-trans women cast, how was the feminine experience reframed through a transgender lens?
Debra: Like we’re part of the gang. Calpernia said it best, “Women’s issues are our issues too.”
Eve wrote a new piece (not exactly a monologue because it was performed by an ensemble of four trans women) reflecting our commonly shared experience of being targeted for violence precisely because we’re feminine. Many productions, trans and cisgendered, now include it when The Vagina Monologues (“VM”) is performed every February 20th or so as part of V-Day to raise public awareness of violence against women. Cisgendered women’s takes on us is a different matter again. I’ve watched, over and over, a natural disinclination to accept us as female melt away when women get to know us, when they can observe us and gauge whether our behaviors are just an act or whether they reflect an authentically feminine sense of self.
Monika: You shared the stage with Jane Fonda during the production, a woman who is both a legendary actress and a fierce political force. What was it like to collaborate with someone of her stature in such a meaningful, activist-centered project?
Debra: Oh, yeah. Jane Fonda is an authentic Hollywood star as well as a political lightning rod. She put Andrea and Calpernia together with Eve Ensler. I still kick myself for having forgotten to bring my Barbarella album for her to autograph.
Debra: Like we’re part of the gang. Calpernia said it best, “Women’s issues are our issues too.”
Eve wrote a new piece (not exactly a monologue because it was performed by an ensemble of four trans women) reflecting our commonly shared experience of being targeted for violence precisely because we’re feminine. Many productions, trans and cisgendered, now include it when The Vagina Monologues (“VM”) is performed every February 20th or so as part of V-Day to raise public awareness of violence against women. Cisgendered women’s takes on us is a different matter again. I’ve watched, over and over, a natural disinclination to accept us as female melt away when women get to know us, when they can observe us and gauge whether our behaviors are just an act or whether they reflect an authentically feminine sense of self.
Monika: You shared the stage with Jane Fonda during the production, a woman who is both a legendary actress and a fierce political force. What was it like to collaborate with someone of her stature in such a meaningful, activist-centered project?
Debra: Oh, yeah. Jane Fonda is an authentic Hollywood star as well as a political lightning rod. She put Andrea and Calpernia together with Eve Ensler. I still kick myself for having forgotten to bring my Barbarella album for her to autograph.
Monika: You performed “The Flood,” one of the play’s most emotionally charged monologues. How did you navigate your stage fright and inhabit the character’s voice?
Debra: We were allowed to perform with our scripts written out on 3” x 5” cards, just in case we forgot our lines. Early in my performance, I got past my stage fright and didn’t look at mine as I settled into my Granny groove. She had carried around a deep, dark secret for many years, something she finally confronts and confesses, to her interviewer and to herself, which finally brings her closure. We can all relate to that. FWIW, Jane’s son, Troy Garrity (who played Barry Winchell in Soldier’s Girl, Calpernia’s real-life story) told me he’d seen VM over 100 times, and my performance of The Flood was the best he’d ever seen. I don’t know and don’t care whether he really meant it, because I was floating on air.
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| Performing The Flood at The Vagina Monologues. |
Monika: Looking back, what lasting impact did this performance and sisterhood of trans icons leave on you?
Debra: Beyond that, I was changed just by being in a cast with so many amazing trans women. Icons, really, even ten years later. I’d read what Andrea James and Lynn Conway had written, but suddenly the paradigm of sex, gender, and sexual orientation didn’t really sink in until I heard them talk about it in person. I don’t know why it took me so long to get it. I think the “conventional wisdom” about us (which is not particularly wise, just conventional) was so drilled into me, I had to feel it to believe it.
Sadly, the L.A. Times didn’t show, but we played to a full house of 400 people, and not just trans women. My Iranian client brought his very conservative and very skeptical wife, who loved it. We reached a lot of people. The day after the production, it was all over, and many of my new friends returned home to cities across the country. I cried all day.
Monika: In 2006, the groundbreaking production you were part of was captured in the documentary Beautiful Daughters, which aired on both LOGO and Showtime. What was it like to see the project immortalized on film?
Debra: I loved it. It was groundbreaking… still being screened on college campuses. It was very professionally done and is as relevant today as it was eight years ago. And I’m in IMDb!
Monika: In January 2008, you performed alongside DeeDee Flores, Leslie Townsend, Andrea James, Mariana Marroquin, Ashley Love, Donna Rose, and Bianca Leigh in Trans Sister Tales, a series of shows exploring how society perceives trans women. What can you tell us about this powerful project? And have you stayed in touch with any of the amazing women you shared the stage with?
Debra: I only knew about half the cast beforehand, so again I was meeting another group of fabulous trans women. We each wrote and performed our own monologues, so it was taking VM to another level. My own piece chronicled my evolution from strictly hetero and homophobic to my present self. It was very cathartic, and the audience laughed at all my jokes. I rarely see other cast members, at least not in person. Does Facebook count? I’m a huge fan of Bianca Leigh, and when I was in NY recently, I made it a point to see her.
Monika: In 2006, the groundbreaking production you were part of was captured in the documentary Beautiful Daughters, which aired on both LOGO and Showtime. What was it like to see the project immortalized on film?
Debra: I loved it. It was groundbreaking… still being screened on college campuses. It was very professionally done and is as relevant today as it was eight years ago. And I’m in IMDb!
Monika: In January 2008, you performed alongside DeeDee Flores, Leslie Townsend, Andrea James, Mariana Marroquin, Ashley Love, Donna Rose, and Bianca Leigh in Trans Sister Tales, a series of shows exploring how society perceives trans women. What can you tell us about this powerful project? And have you stayed in touch with any of the amazing women you shared the stage with?
Debra: I only knew about half the cast beforehand, so again I was meeting another group of fabulous trans women. We each wrote and performed our own monologues, so it was taking VM to another level. My own piece chronicled my evolution from strictly hetero and homophobic to my present self. It was very cathartic, and the audience laughed at all my jokes. I rarely see other cast members, at least not in person. Does Facebook count? I’m a huge fan of Bianca Leigh, and when I was in NY recently, I made it a point to see her.
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L-R: Andea James, Debra Soshoux, Marianna Marroquin, Ashley Love, Donna Rose, Bianca Leigh, Leslie Townsend. |
Monika: At the time you were beginning your transition, did you have any transgender role models to look up to or guide you through the journey?
Debra: Well, of course I’d heard about Christine Jorgensen, but I knew very little about her. There was no Internet back then. The first trans person I ever met was Chrysis St. Laurent, aka International Chrysis. That was forty years ago. She was well-known in New York and she introduced me to the life, but she lived largely outside my comfort zone. Beyond that, I was attracted to women, which the psychiatric establishment said disqualified me from being trans. And I believed them.
Monika: How did those early beliefs about gender and mental health affect your path forward?
Debra: According to them, I was also mentally ill. I never believed that, but I didn’t challenge them. Nor did I challenge the legal establishment that denied trans folk due process and equal protection under the law. Back then I was so clueless I couldn’t say for sure I wasn’t a transvestite. I wonder now how many people identify as such but who really are trans, stuck in a situation where they can’t transition, either because of family, job security, money, age, or an anatomy that’s just too male. That’s how I thought it was for me. When I met Chrysis, I took a half-hearted stab at transition which fizzled out because I couldn’t look in the mirror and see a woman. Dr. Ousterhout didn’t start doing FFS until years later. I only learned about him when I stumbled across Andrea James’ TS Roadmap.
Monika: Did you find inspiration or guidance from others later in your transition?
Debra: Andrea was everything I was not, focused, determined, and brave. I obsessed over her account of her own FFS and had mine a year or two after hers. I wrote to Lynn Conway out of the blue, and she answered me. That blew me away. Then I was in the Vagina Monologues cast with her and Andrea. I was already two years post-op, but that’s when I found my voice... what’s left of it.
I only learned about the Carrousel de Paris and Coccinelle, Bambi, and April Ashley in particular when I got on the Internet. I had no idea they existed when I was seventeen and living in Paris. I can only imagine what my life might have been like if I had. Since you asked about role models, I must mention Pamela Harriman, even though she wasn’t trans. She’s simply inspirational. Google her and read her full-page New York Times obituary. I’ve also been a major Marilyn Monroe fan since forever.
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| Her first driver’s license pic as Debra, a month after she started living 24/7. |
Monika: What was the greatest challenge you faced when you first came out, the moment you stepped into your true self and revealed it to the world?
Debra: No question, overcoming my fears of what others think of me. How dumb is that? Like anyone really cared. Looking back, it’s beyond regretful; it’s downright embarrassing. Once I was able to get past it, things started falling into place. And transition is an ongoing process. I’ll always be a work in progress. When we transition, most of us lose everything, family, friends, jobs, a roof over our heads. We learn that society’s civil niceties are not for us, that even the biggest losers feel they’re at least better than a trannie. I planned things carefully. I delayed my transition until I had the wherewithal to insulate myself somewhat. But even as a lawyer who litigated divorces, when my ex sued me, I learned that “justice” really is “just us, and f**k you.” It was an extremely rude awakening.
Monika: How do you feel about the way transgender stories and characters have been portrayed in films, books, and the media so far? Do any stand out to you as particularly truthful or meaningful?
Debra: The electricity between Rae and Jaye in The Crying Game was compelling. Stephen Rae’s internal conflict as a straight male attracted to pre-op transwoman Jaye Davidson, whose over-the-top femininity trumps Rae’s homophobia, rang true. Whose heart did Ludovic not steal in Ma Vie en Rose? I really liked Jamie Clayton in Hung and Laverne Cox is terrific in Orange Is The New Black.
Monika: Are you currently involved in political activism or lobbying efforts? Do you believe transgender women have the power to create real change in the political arena?
Debra: Not so much anymore. In 2008, I gathered signatures against Prop 8 (the California gay marriage ban), and recently I was on the picket line against the Pacific Justice Institute, the same cadre of duplicitous miscreants whose bathroom scare tactics are now targeting trans kids. I’m a member of the WPATH legal affairs committee. You interviewed Dana Beyer, remember that name. She just announced her candidacy for Maryland State Senate. Melissa Sklarz is doing great work in New York. When gender equality finally passes in those two states, it will be very much because of them.
Debra: No question, overcoming my fears of what others think of me. How dumb is that? Like anyone really cared. Looking back, it’s beyond regretful; it’s downright embarrassing. Once I was able to get past it, things started falling into place. And transition is an ongoing process. I’ll always be a work in progress. When we transition, most of us lose everything, family, friends, jobs, a roof over our heads. We learn that society’s civil niceties are not for us, that even the biggest losers feel they’re at least better than a trannie. I planned things carefully. I delayed my transition until I had the wherewithal to insulate myself somewhat. But even as a lawyer who litigated divorces, when my ex sued me, I learned that “justice” really is “just us, and f**k you.” It was an extremely rude awakening.
Monika: How do you feel about the way transgender stories and characters have been portrayed in films, books, and the media so far? Do any stand out to you as particularly truthful or meaningful?
Debra: The electricity between Rae and Jaye in The Crying Game was compelling. Stephen Rae’s internal conflict as a straight male attracted to pre-op transwoman Jaye Davidson, whose over-the-top femininity trumps Rae’s homophobia, rang true. Whose heart did Ludovic not steal in Ma Vie en Rose? I really liked Jamie Clayton in Hung and Laverne Cox is terrific in Orange Is The New Black.
Monika: Are you currently involved in political activism or lobbying efforts? Do you believe transgender women have the power to create real change in the political arena?
Debra: Not so much anymore. In 2008, I gathered signatures against Prop 8 (the California gay marriage ban), and recently I was on the picket line against the Pacific Justice Institute, the same cadre of duplicitous miscreants whose bathroom scare tactics are now targeting trans kids. I’m a member of the WPATH legal affairs committee. You interviewed Dana Beyer, remember that name. She just announced her candidacy for Maryland State Senate. Melissa Sklarz is doing great work in New York. When gender equality finally passes in those two states, it will be very much because of them.
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| She knows, her roots are showing. Shoot her. |
Monika: Could you share what role love has played in your life, especially through your journey?
Debra: There’s a sticky wicket. I was precociously romantic, a love junkie. Transition upset every preconceived notion I had about love. Now, I’m not sure I really know what love is. I fell into the classic trap of mistaking sex for love, confusing my consuming need to be loved with love itself, which at its core is the ability to love others. For that, however, you must love yourself, something I couldn’t do until after I transitioned. My sex/love compulsion drove me to do some dangerously dumb things. It’s no exaggeration that transition saved my life. My emotions may not be as intense as before, but that’s a good thing. Was what I felt before really “love,” or just infatuation driven by insecurity?
Monika: How do you view the idea of self-love, especially in the context of your own experience and what you’ve seen in the trans community?
Debra: Cynics may say that loving yourself is narcissistic, but is self-esteem possible if you don’t like yourself? Instilling self-esteem is a major parenting big deal. It’s amazing to see so many trans kids coming out with supportive families. That was so not my experience.
END OF PART 1
All the photos: courtesy of Debra Soshoux.
© 2014 - Monika Kowalska
