Monika: Today, I have the distinct honor of speaking with Esben Esther Pirelli Benestad, a trailblazing physician, sexologist, and professor of sexology. She is one of Norway’s most prominent transgender figures, advocating tirelessly for trans rights and visibility. Beyond her academic and medical contributions, she has been a political candidate for the Liberal Party and a television personality, competing in the reality show Skal vi danse in 2007. Her life and journey were also the subject of the acclaimed 2002 documentary All About My Father (Alt om min far), directed by her son, Even Benestad. Esther, welcome, and thank you for joining me today!
Esben Esther: Hello Monika! Thank you for including me in your wonderful series of interviews.
Monika: You have authored several important textbooks on transgender issues, including Kjønn i bevegelse (2001), Transseksualisme - hvor går vi og hvor står vi? (2002), Transekjønn og diagnoser (2004), and Sexologi i Praksis (2006). How has your own lived experience influenced your academic and literary work on gender and sexuality?
Esben Esther: For a long time, traditional therapeutic thinking emphasized neutrality, discouraging therapists from “over-identifying” with their clients. This led to the belief that homosexual individuals shouldn’t provide therapy for other homosexuals and that trans professionals shouldn’t work with trans clients. Interestingly, there was never a ban on heterosexual therapists working with heterosexual clients. Over time, this perspective has shifted, allowing personal experience to be recognized as a valuable professional asset. My own journey has reinforced my belief that “the personal IS the professional.”
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| Elsa and I, how to pose when Christmas cards need Seasonal illustration. Our niece Hanne in the middle. |
Monika: In your studies and work, which aspects of transgender experiences have particularly captured your interest?
Esben Esther: I am deeply interested in all aspects of transgender life, from daily challenges to surgical advancements. However, I have increasingly moved away from the “wrong body” and “passing” narratives, as they often frame trans identities in limiting ways. Instead, I advocate for a broader understanding of gender expression that respects how individuals perceive themselves. Another crucial area of focus is sexuality, which is often overlooked in trans discussions.
Monika: How would you define your own gender identity and journey
Esben Esther: I wouldn’t describe it as a “case” but rather as the life path of a transgifted individual who, from an early stage, embraced and took pride in her gendered talents.
Monika: Have you ever considered undergoing a full medical transition?
Esben Esther: To me, any transition that leads a transgifted individual to a place of comfort and authenticity is a “full” transition. While I considered further medical steps, the personal and professional costs outweighed the benefits. Ultimately, I feel that my life would not have improved by going further.
Monika: The Justice Department initially refused to issue identity documents under the name Esther Pirelli, but the police later provided unofficial papers. That must have been a rather surreal experience.
Esther: Yes, it was! The justice department refused, and when I asked why, they replied that it would be too expensive and that it would threaten safety. I asked them: How come? They replied that they had closed the case.
A local policeman certified on a piece of paper with two pictures that both of them depicted the same individual: Me. He received a reprimand, and I got a piece of paper that amongst other accomplishments, got me out of Poland. Bureaucrats possess a very dangerous combination of tons of power with a lack of insights.
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| Twice I have been seriously catwalking for Natalia Leikis, this is a charity show for the Unicef. |
Monika: What are the key transgender advocacy issues in Norway today?
Esben Esther: The health care offers to transgifted in Norway have been far away from ideal. Only one institution lead by a totally non-empathic psychiatrist rules over the fate of those who experience themselves as transsexuals.
Those who don’t, but nevertheless are in need of hormones and/or surgery, get nothing. Finally, the government officials have realized this unworthy state of affairs. I have been pointed out as one expert to be part of an official multidisciplinary group that is set out to change conditions for the better.
Monika: You have been involved in politics through the Liberal Party. Do you believe that transgender women can create meaningful change in the political landscape?
Esben Esther: I think all individuals of difference do make a difference when they find pride in themselves and are open in public life.
Monika: What do you think about transgender stories which have been featured in media, films, books, etc. so far?
Esben Esther: My son made a movie “All about my father” (“Alt om min far”) – a documentary that has earned more prizes than any other Norwegian movie. The film presents a son’s, a daughter’s, and a family’s perspective. I am not sheltered. I like that. I also like movies that depict transpeople as resources, not victims.
Monika: How do you recollect working with your son? Were you satisfied with the film?
Esben Esther: I am proud and happy with it, even though he at times portrays me in non-sympathetic ways. Our relation has always been very good, hence working together was filled with anticipation and pleasure.
Monika: Trans rights are often linked with broader LGBTQ+ advocacy. Do you think the trans community is sufficiently prioritized within the movement?
Esben Esther: At least in Norway it seems that we are, but we constantly need to educate our fellow queers.
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| Elsa and I, we travel a lot, ordinarily as part of the job. 10 days in Cape Town did us very well. |
Monika: Is there anyone in Norway’s transgender movement who could be compared to Harvey Milk in terms of activism?
Esben Esther: Maybe me.
Monika: What was the most challenging part of coming out?
Esben Esther: My fears of being trashed. I believe that honesty and pride silenced those who might have tried.
Monika: In 2007, you competed on Skal vi danse (Shall We Dance), but you were eliminated after four episodes. You suggested that your transgender identity played a role in your early exit. How did that experience feel?
Esben Esther: That was the hardest task ever! To face a great audience when I was dancing in heels with a woman. Never ever was I more helplessly on display. It was truly hard but had it not been for the judges who named me number one out of the contest, the whole ordeal would have been a pleasure. The support from the Norwegian audience was remarkable.
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| Dancegirl and transgirl – for my daughter Elisabeth's annual "Glamour night" - open for all kinds of glamour. |
Monika: Love plays an important role in everyone’s life. What does it mean to you?
Esben Esther: I have been married for 25 years to Elsa the great love of my life! Before that I was married 16 years with the mother of my two children: Elisabeth and Even, Tomas, Elsa’s son has entered my life as a third child. Together we have 4 grandchildren. The two oldest turned seven in 2013.
Monika: Do you enjoy fashion? What styles do you gravitate toward?
Esben Esther: I love the female body lines, and I am happy to see myself displaying lines like that. I have had many dresses, skirts, and blouses made for me. My favorite designer is Natalia Leikis, who has her studio in Oslo. People describe me as discretely elegant with some flamboyant inclinations.
Monika: Many transgender women eventually write memoirs. Have you considered documenting your journey in a book?
Esben Esther: Yes!
Monika: Would you say that you are a happy woman today?
Esben Esther: I am not a man, not a woman, but a very happy transperson!
Monika: Esther, thank you for the interview!
All the photos: courtesy of Esben Esther Pirelli Benestad.
© 2013 - Monika Kowalska
Some documentaries with Caroline Cossey:
