Interview with Abbie Pope

Abbie Kathryn Pope is an American transgender woman, computer engineer, writer, and blogger whose life and transition took her through a remarkably varied personal and professional journey. Born in San Luis Obispo, California, she spent her childhood moving between Northern California, Los Angeles, Virginia, South Carolina, and Bakersfield, where she attended high school. Her early years were marked by the difficulties of being gender-variant in an environment where she had few, if any, transgender role models and often faced ridicule and isolation. Before entering the technology industry, Abbie studied philosophy and economics and worked in finance and analytics. She later moved into technology, began pursuing a Master's degree in Computer Science, and built a career as a computer engineer in the high-tech industry. At the time of this interview, she was preparing to move from Los Angeles to Portland, Oregon. She was also writing about her experiences and personal growth through her blogs, including Threads of Gender and Some Beautiful Life.

 

After years of therapy and soul-searching, Abbie began her transition in September 2011. The process brought both profound loss and important sources of support. While her transition led to the breakdown of her marriage and a painful separation from her young children, her family ultimately stood by her, and her employer supported her transition at work. She also found inspiration and encouragement from people including her cousin, performance artist Tim Miller, and transgender author and activist Kate Bornstein. In this interview, Abbie talks candidly about growing up gender-variant, surviving a difficult school experience, discovering her identity, transitioning, motherhood and family loss, working as a transgender woman in the technology industry, the importance of representation, and the challenges facing transgender women in American society. Above all, her story is one of searching for the freedom to become not simply female, but fully and unapologetically herself. 

 

Monika: Today I would like to invite you to my chat with Abbie Kathryn Pope, a transgender lady and the author of the blog titled “Threads of Gender”. She currently lives in Portland, Oregon where she works in the high-tech industry as a computer engineer. Hello Abbie!

Abbie: Hello to you too!

Monika: Let's start simple, what are you doing these days?
Abbie: Well, a lot! I'm moving to Portland, OR from LA in a few weeks. I started a new blog at somebeautifullife.com, which is less trans-oriented and more geared towards personal and spiritual growth. And you know, just keeping the wheels turning to survive as a trans woman in America.

Monika: You're a computer engineer, which makes me curious. Why do you think so few women succeed in the IT business?

Abbie: It's really quite unfortunate. I think there's a ton of cultural bias against genetic women pursuing careers in STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, & Math) fields. One of the few silver linings of growing up trans is that there were never barriers to pursuing these fields for me.

We can't just break down the barriers, we have to actively encourage young women and girls to go in this direction.

 

Abbie at home.

 

Monika: Was engineering always the plan for you?

Abbie: Oh no. When I first started college, I studied a lot of philosophy. This was mainly because I was so damn confused about my life being pre-transition. Then I studied economics, and I worked in finance and analytics for a while. It was a practical decision to move into technology, because that's where the demand is. Now I'm pursuing a Master's degree in Computer Science, but it's taking a while. :)

Monika: Where did you grow up?

Abbie: Well...nowhere. Lol. I was born in San Luis Obispo, CA, then we moved to Northern California, then we moved to LA, then we moved to Virginia, then we moved to South Carolina (deep breath), then we moved to Bakersfield, CA, where I went to high school. It was tough being gender variant and moving all over the place, but maybe it let me start over a lot too. Who knows?

Monika: Let's go back to your childhood. When did you first feel that being a boy or a man wasn't who you were?

Abbie: I was pretty repressive. I pushed it really far down and put police tape around my gender variant thoughts. I was a “good boy.” I think I was able to be myself until I was about 6 or 7, when the taunting and ridicule started.
I just always wanted to be “nicer” than the boys and cooperate with people instead of fighting and dominating them. I did tell some people in high school that life would be easier for me as a woman, but I had zero role models in that respect, and it was like saying life would be easier if I was a wizard. It was fantastical. So I just kept living in the “real world.”

Monika: For many transgender girls, school, college, or university is the most traumatic period, full of discrimination. Was that true for you as well?

Abbie: Oh yeah, high school was a terror. I really hated it. We moved right before my sophomore year, so I had no roots. There was a lot of pressure for me to play sports as a boy, so I did that, but my teammates were merciless in ostracizing me. I won't go into a ton of detail, but there were some very traumatic moments.
The hardest part was that I was attracted to women, so I didn't identify as gay at the time, and I would just think, “I'm doing everything right, why does everyone hate me?” I think I got along with women a lot better than men back then, but I was pretty much a loner. I just focused on my studies to hide. Funny enough though, I did performance (choir, acting, etc). That was like coming up for air to me, even though it put me right in the spotlight.

Monika: At what age did you transition into a woman? Was it a difficult process, and did you have support from family or friends? Did it affect your job situation at all?

Abbie: This is a long story, but I'll keep it succinct. I had a lot of therapy and soul searching in my late twenties, as I was just not happy at all with my life, but the idea of being trans was buried so deep, it took a long time to unearth it.
I started to transition properly in September of 2011. It was soap opera dramatic, let me tell you. I wouldn't wish that experience on my worst enemy, but I got through it, and it taught me so much about who I am and what I can survive. Here's the synopsis about family support, my ex-wife took my two kids and basically excommunicated me and fought me tooth and nail in court for over a year, bleeding me dry. I tried as much as I could to reconcile and move on and come to a compromise, but at present, it's a non-starter. I haven't seen my two baby boys in over nine months. I don't get pictures. It's achingly sad.

 

Abbie in pink.

 
However, my family was and is supportive. Granted, it's been a rocky 16 months or so, but they've taken the trek with me, and now they are so, so important to my well-being. I would be lost without them.
My employer has also been awesome! We just got ranked the #22 place to work in the country, and I know firsthand why this is so. They helped me with every step of the work transition. They brought in a psychologist to answer any questions for my teammates. We have a Pride network where we can connect with fellow LGBT workers. My work has been my saving grace.

Monika: Did you ever struggle with passing as a woman?

Abbie: My biggest tells that I was male are my height (I'm a little over 6'1") and my build (I'm muscular). I know the muscles will shrink over time, though. I don't really wear heels, but I'm getting used to it.
I'm lucky with my facial features in that I don't have anything that really works against me. It's a bit of a mixed bag, but I think I pass almost all the time now. I have mixed feelings about how important we make passing in the trans* world. It's a little sad that sometimes we can't see past the presentation, to the beautiful person underneath. But that's the way of the world.

Monika: Some believe modern cosmetic surgery makes transitioning possible even in your late 50s or 60s. Do you think that's realistic, and what advice would you give transgender women at that age?

Abbie: That's a very interesting question! I think the same applies to anyone. Start seeking out your peers. They are all over the place. Get used to the Internet! It will be your best friend.
I know some of you are digital immigrants, but there is so much love and support on the internet for you. I have some links on my site as well. Oh, and find a really good doctor. About surgery, I'm kind of ignorant on that until I get to that bridge.

Monika: Did you have any transgender role models to look up to during your own transition? How much did you actually know about being transgender at that time?

Abbie: That's funny, I was just thanking my cousin Tim Miller, who's been a gay performance artist for over gosh, 30 years or so. He was the first person I told I was trans, when I was utterly scared to death.
Then he introduced me to Kate Bornstein , who is just a treasure. She taught me to just be wacky and loud and myself. I'm still learning about new people every day too.
Monika: What was the hardest part of coming out for you?

Abbie: Oh, most definitely not seeing my children and my marriage falling apart. It's the hardest thing I've had to endure in my life. It almost feels like a spiritual test at times, because it's so over the top awful.
My boys are 1 and a half, and one will be 3 in June. I wish I could hold them every day, but that's not, well that's not reality...

Monika: And what did it feel like when you finally felt like a woman?

Abbie: Calm, happy, goofy, proud, and the weirdest thing is that I got a much stronger backbone when I became a woman. I was finally able to have pride and stick up for myself.

Monika: What do you enjoy most about being a woman?

Abbie: The emotional expression. Not having to filter the things that you say. Also, being a part of the female culture. Women wear their hearts on their sleeves, and when I was forced to be around men all my life, it was so bleak.

 

Full smile.

 

Monika: More broadly, how would you describe the present situation of transgender women in American society?

Abbie: Terrible and awful . I'm an optimist, but I'm also a realist. The statistics are staggering about how much discrimination and loathing we face as a minority. The suicide numbers are reprehensible for a supposedly enlightened society. It's really time to wake up and fix this mess. Each generation has to do its part to pass the torch and spread the flame.

Monika: In the USA, more and more transgender women are coming out, and unlike in previous years, some of them hold real celebrity status or wide recognition, Lana Wachowski in film-directing, Jenna Talackova in modeling, Kate Bornstein in academic life, Laura Jane Grace in music, Candis Cayne in acting. Do you think we'll keep seeing more women like that?

Abbie: I think so. I think we're at a tipping point where people are starting to realize that it's even possible. Before the internet, the only image you got of a trans woman was this horrible sideshow stereotype that was probably worse than death to most people. Now we're able to beam our pride into the homes of young, confused girls all over the planet. I think it's fantastic, and that's why I write.

Monika: And yet alongside that progress, we still get horrifying news, like the infamous case of Chrissy Polis, beaten by two teenagers in a McDonald's for using the ladies' restroom. What do you think it would take to stop that kind of violence?

Abbie: First of all, murder and rape, and violence are not going to go away, but I think there are important, organic steps that can be taken to help this problem. The problem of the bathrooms is just asinine in my opinion. Most people have this idea of some sexual predator in a dress lurking in women's bathrooms, or this is the image used to scare people. This is not reality, and these people are going to be threats no matter what the policy.
I got into an internet squabble about the Roseanne Barr quote, where she was saying how trans women shouldn't be allowed in genetic women's locker rooms. OK, let's turn that on its head. Do you want hairy trans men with full beards changing in the women's locker rooms because they have vaginas? Come on. Yes, it's awkward, but the awkwardness leaves the door open for the sociopaths to go around beating and murdering people.

Monika: Are you active in politics at all, any lobbying campaigns? Do you think transgender women can make a difference there?

Abbie: I'm engaged, but I wouldn't say I'm active in the sense that I really get out there and work the streets. I was greeted by a couple of trans men in front of Target the other day working for trans rights. That was awesome!

Monika: What's your take on transgender beauty pageants? Could we get rid of the label “transgender” and just have pageants open to both transgender and non-transgender women?

Abbie: Yeah, I think beauty is beauty. Honestly, I think beauty pageants are kind of a relic of a different time, but more power to people like Jenna Talackova.

Monika: How about fashion, do you enjoy it? What do you usually wear, and are there any particular designs, colors, or trends you gravitate toward?

Abbie: You know, I'm pretty basic, but I'm getting better. It's a struggle to learn all of the intricacies of women's fashion. My mom is a fashionista, so I get a lot of stuff from her. Accessorize, accessorize, accessorize! Belts, scarves, necklaces, bracelets, etc.

Monika: Are you involved in your local LGBT community at all?

Abbie: I have connections, but I'm more active online.

Monika: Quite a few transgender women end up writing memoirs. Has that idea ever crossed your mind?

Abbie: Oh definitely, and I've already started it. But life is all about priorities, and if you've read up to this far, you know I've got a lot going on!

Monika: Your blog opens with this motto, “I'd rather be me than anything else. It's the easiest thing in the world to do and the hardest.” Could you elaborate on that?

Abbie: I transitioned not to just be female. I transitioned to be free to be myself, wherever I fit on the spectrum. There has been terrible loss and wonderful joy that has come with the decision to transition, but I'll never go back. Ever! lol :)

Monika: Would you say you're a happy woman today?

Abbie: I do my best.

Monika: Abbie, thank you for the interview!

All the photos: courtesy of Abbie Pope.

© 2013 - Monika Kowalska

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