Today, I have the heartfelt honor of introducing Dawn Flynn, a deeply inspiring transgender woman, author, pastor, and activist. Dawn serves as the pastor of New Life Metropolitan Community Church, an LGBT-affirming congregation in Charlotte, North Carolina. She is also the author of the powerful memoir “God Does Love Me: My Trans Journey to Finding My True Self” (2012), where she lovingly shares the story of her lifelong journey toward authenticity and spiritual awakening. From a young age, Dawn knew she was different, a tender moment trying on her grandmother’s clip-on earrings at the age of eight gave her a glimpse of her true self. But her path to womanhood was far from easy. For more than five decades, she hid that truth behind two marriages, raising two children, and trying to live as someone she wasn’t. In the end, it was love, for life, for others, and finally for herself, that gave her the strength to transition and become the woman she always was inside. Dawn underwent gender-affirming surgery in 2011 and has since dedicated her life to lifting others through her ministry, her writing, and her presence. Her voice is one of healing and hope in a world that too often turns away from those who are different. With grace and courage, she reminds us all that God’s love is for everyone, without exception. It’s with great joy and admiration that I welcome Dawn Flynn to this conversation.
Monika: Hello, Dawn! It’s such a joy to finally speak with you. Thank you for making time for this little chat. I’ve been truly looking forward to it.
Dawn: Oh, Monika, the pleasure is all mine! I’m so grateful for this opportunity to share space with you. Your warmth shines through already. I just know this is going to be a beautiful conversation.
Monika: Dawn, I’d love for our readers to get to know the incredible woman behind the story. Would you mind sharing a bit about your journey and who you are today?
Dawn: Sure. I am a trans woman, having had my SRS on January 11, 2011. I have felt like a girl since I was 8 years old. At that time, I tried on a pair of my grandmother’s clip-on earrings and knew I was different because they felt right. I suppressed my true gender identity for over 50 years through two marriages and two children, finally embracing my true self when it became clear that I was going to commit suicide if I kept on going in the direction I was headed. I am now a trans activist, pastor of an LGBT church in Charlotte, NC, and openly share my story whenever I can to encourage others on their journey. Living authentically has brought me more peace than I ever thought possible.
Dawn: Sure. I am a trans woman, having had my SRS on January 11, 2011. I have felt like a girl since I was 8 years old. At that time, I tried on a pair of my grandmother’s clip-on earrings and knew I was different because they felt right. I suppressed my true gender identity for over 50 years through two marriages and two children, finally embracing my true self when it became clear that I was going to commit suicide if I kept on going in the direction I was headed. I am now a trans activist, pastor of an LGBT church in Charlotte, NC, and openly share my story whenever I can to encourage others on their journey. Living authentically has brought me more peace than I ever thought possible.
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| Womanless Beauty Pageant, April 2008. |
Monika: Many transgender people struggle with deep spiritual questions, wondering why a loving God would allow them to be born with a gender identity that doesn’t align with their body. How do you make sense of this in your own faith and journey?
Dawn: I don’t believe God creates transgender people to punish them. I believe they are chosen to go on their journey. My mother had 11 miscarriages trying to have children: 7 before I was born and 4 after. Medically, I should have died like the other fetuses, but I didn’t. I never knew why I had lived until I embraced who I truly was. I know in my heart I had to go on the journey so I could share my story and encourage others. I couldn’t have done that without experiencing it.
Dawn: I don’t believe God creates transgender people to punish them. I believe they are chosen to go on their journey. My mother had 11 miscarriages trying to have children: 7 before I was born and 4 after. Medically, I should have died like the other fetuses, but I didn’t. I never knew why I had lived until I embraced who I truly was. I know in my heart I had to go on the journey so I could share my story and encourage others. I couldn’t have done that without experiencing it.
I believe all transgender people are called to do the same, that is, to help society understand that God’s love is for everyone and that we are flesh-and-blood people, created by God and no less loved than anyone else. When ‘the light goes on’ and someone truly understands that, our journey becomes a blessing and all are blessed.
Each time I speak my truth, I feel God smiling through the people I’ve touched.
Monika: Many transgender people carry deep wounds from their experiences with faith communities, often having been rejected by the very places and people they once turned to for comfort. In a past interview, Lisa Salazar mentioned that trans individuals are among the least likely to be involved in religious institutions because of this history of judgment and exclusion. Do you find that to be true in your experience?
Dawn: I agree that many are not open to being involved in religious institutions (like church) because they were most likely told by their churches and Christian families that God didn’t love them and that they were living in sin. However, there are a number of transgender ministers in various denominations and traditions. They are there because they have come to understand that God’s love transcends tradition.
Monika: Many transgender people carry deep wounds from their experiences with faith communities, often having been rejected by the very places and people they once turned to for comfort. In a past interview, Lisa Salazar mentioned that trans individuals are among the least likely to be involved in religious institutions because of this history of judgment and exclusion. Do you find that to be true in your experience?
Dawn: I agree that many are not open to being involved in religious institutions (like church) because they were most likely told by their churches and Christian families that God didn’t love them and that they were living in sin. However, there are a number of transgender ministers in various denominations and traditions. They are there because they have come to understand that God’s love transcends tradition.
We are only truly whole when we come to understand we are loved by our Creator and that His love is unconditional. We have come to understand God truly loves us and we are not under condemnation as the traditional church has told us. We are just fulfilling our call in life. They are just fulfilling their call in life.
And despite the pain many of us have endured, some find their way back to faith, not through fear, but through the quiet, healing voice of grace.
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| With Pam, Atlanta Braves Game 2000. |
Monika: In your view, how does mainstream Christianity perceive transgender people today? Have you seen any shifts in theology or understanding, or does misunderstanding still dominate the conversation?
Dawn: Outside of those traditions or denominations that focus on ministering to the LGBT community, like the Metropolitan Community Church, it varies. Most mainline denominations, within their bylaws and disciplines, lump transgender people together with homosexuals and therefore condemn them. But there are a number of ‘renegade’ churches within each denomination that are openly LGBT-affirming in a lot of communities. Many folks in mainline denominations are now coming to understand that transgender people are not to be feared and are not evil people.
Dawn: Outside of those traditions or denominations that focus on ministering to the LGBT community, like the Metropolitan Community Church, it varies. Most mainline denominations, within their bylaws and disciplines, lump transgender people together with homosexuals and therefore condemn them. But there are a number of ‘renegade’ churches within each denomination that are openly LGBT-affirming in a lot of communities. Many folks in mainline denominations are now coming to understand that transgender people are not to be feared and are not evil people.
Most of the negativism against transgender people is really due to not understanding who we truly are.
Unfortunately, TV has most often portrayed transgender people as prostitutes or mentally deficient. The majority are not. We are just trying to be contributing members of society as our true selves.
And as more people meet and listen to real transgender individuals, hearts are beginning to soften and doors once closed are slowly opening.
Monika: Many people argue that the Bible has something to say about everything, but what about transgender identities? Are there any scriptural references that speak to our experience, either directly or indirectly?
Dawn: No, not as such. The term transgender is a recent term, first used in 1965 by Dr. John Oliven, but it was not commonly used until the 1970s. There are a number of passages that mainline denominations use as ‘clobber’ verses to condemn being transgender, like Deuteronomy 22:5. When they are used for that purpose, they are really being misinterpreted. They are being taken out of context and not being interpreted as they were intended.
Monika: Many people argue that the Bible has something to say about everything, but what about transgender identities? Are there any scriptural references that speak to our experience, either directly or indirectly?
Dawn: No, not as such. The term transgender is a recent term, first used in 1965 by Dr. John Oliven, but it was not commonly used until the 1970s. There are a number of passages that mainline denominations use as ‘clobber’ verses to condemn being transgender, like Deuteronomy 22:5. When they are used for that purpose, they are really being misinterpreted. They are being taken out of context and not being interpreted as they were intended.
The condemnation of God described in that verse is directed at members of the Jewish community who were evading punishment for disobeying the Law by disguising themselves with clothes of the opposite sex. God’s anger was for not accepting their punishment, not for wearing the clothes of the opposite sex. To truly understand the context, one frequently has to go back to the original language the verse was written in.
When interpreted with compassion and historical understanding, Scripture becomes less about exclusion and more about the deeper call to live honestly and justly.
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| Part time, July 2009. |
Monika: What moved you to open your heart so deeply and write God Does Love Me: My Trans Journey to Finding My True Self? Was there a particular moment or realization that told you your story needed to be shared?
Dawn: I have always, even in my dark days, been searching for an understanding from God of why I, from an early age, felt like a girl/woman. When I finally embraced my true self and completed my transition to a woman, God came to me, through the Holy Spirit, in a dream and told me to write a book about my journey to help others who have been rejected by mainline churches because they are transgender. He wanted me to tell them He loved them. He also told me the title to use. When God tells you to do something, you do it. As a proof of His leading, it took me a year to write it and six months to get it published, pretty quick by most standards for publishing. The response from readers has been incredibly humbling, reminding me that sometimes our most personal stories carry the greatest power to heal.
Monika: During the early days of your transition, were there any transgender women who inspired you or gave you hope that living authentically was truly possible?
Dawn: Christine Jorgensen. I saw her on a TV special when I was younger and was amazed to see her, she was so beautiful. I bought her autobiography and read it many times. Until I knew about her journey, I thought my feelings about being a girl trapped in a boy’s body were unique. Now I had hope, if she could do it, so could I. Her story planted a seed of possibility in my heart that never stopped growing.
Monika: Looking back, what was the most difficult part of coming out to those closest to you, especially in terms of your relationship with your wife?
Dawn: Fearing I would lose the love of my wife, Pam. I had read that 90% of people who transition, whether married or in a straight relationship, lose that relationship. I loved her with my whole heart and still do. I didn’t want to hurt her, but it was unavoidable. As a man, I was straight, attracted to women. I never consciously was attracted to a man. But now I am straight (due to hormones, I guess), attracted to men.
Dawn: I have always, even in my dark days, been searching for an understanding from God of why I, from an early age, felt like a girl/woman. When I finally embraced my true self and completed my transition to a woman, God came to me, through the Holy Spirit, in a dream and told me to write a book about my journey to help others who have been rejected by mainline churches because they are transgender. He wanted me to tell them He loved them. He also told me the title to use. When God tells you to do something, you do it. As a proof of His leading, it took me a year to write it and six months to get it published, pretty quick by most standards for publishing. The response from readers has been incredibly humbling, reminding me that sometimes our most personal stories carry the greatest power to heal.
Monika: During the early days of your transition, were there any transgender women who inspired you or gave you hope that living authentically was truly possible?
Dawn: Christine Jorgensen. I saw her on a TV special when I was younger and was amazed to see her, she was so beautiful. I bought her autobiography and read it many times. Until I knew about her journey, I thought my feelings about being a girl trapped in a boy’s body were unique. Now I had hope, if she could do it, so could I. Her story planted a seed of possibility in my heart that never stopped growing.
Monika: Looking back, what was the most difficult part of coming out to those closest to you, especially in terms of your relationship with your wife?
Dawn: Fearing I would lose the love of my wife, Pam. I had read that 90% of people who transition, whether married or in a straight relationship, lose that relationship. I loved her with my whole heart and still do. I didn’t want to hurt her, but it was unavoidable. As a man, I was straight, attracted to women. I never consciously was attracted to a man. But now I am straight (due to hormones, I guess), attracted to men.
Pam and I have been married 36 years (and are still married but separated) and are soul mates. We love being together even though there is no longer any sexual attraction. The greatest joy I experienced in my whole journey was when Pam openly accepted me and understood why I needed to transition. I knew that we would be girlfriends for life, which we are. My greatest concern became my greatest joy.
Her unwavering support became the anchor that gave me strength to fully embrace my truth.
Monika: Many transgender women face the deeply painful pressure of “passing” as cisgender women, which can feel like a constant test of their identity and worth. As a beautiful woman yourself, what heartfelt advice would you offer to transgender women who fear they might never “pass” in the eyes of others?
Dawn: Whether you are a transgender woman who passes readily or not, I would advise all who are in transition to explore websites and communities dedicated to helping transgender women present themselves authentically and confidently in public as women. There are many ways to de-emphasize masculine features through makeup, clothing, and styling. Also, learn female deportment by observing cisgender women and practicing at home.
Dawn: Whether you are a transgender woman who passes readily or not, I would advise all who are in transition to explore websites and communities dedicated to helping transgender women present themselves authentically and confidently in public as women. There are many ways to de-emphasize masculine features through makeup, clothing, and styling. Also, learn female deportment by observing cisgender women and practicing at home.
Regardless of your ability to pass publicly, always be true to yourself but also empower yourself by using all available resources to feel more comfortable and confident. Unfortunately, passing privilege is more harshly criticized and judged among trans women than trans men.
Remember, your value and beauty come from your authenticity and courage, not just from how others see you.
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| Brandywine Photography, May 2011. |
Monika: How do you perceive the current place and challenges of transgender women within American society today? What are some of the barriers they face, and are there any pockets of acceptance where they might find more comfort and opportunity?
Dawn: It’s tough for transgender women in American society, especially if you don’t have passing privilege. Many coworkers feel uncomfortable around transgender women, and employers often view them with suspicion. The job interview process now makes it almost impossible to apply for a position without revealing your transgender status. Even if you have passing privilege or are post-op, if you don’t disclose upfront, it can be grounds for dismissal.
Dawn: It’s tough for transgender women in American society, especially if you don’t have passing privilege. Many coworkers feel uncomfortable around transgender women, and employers often view them with suspicion. The job interview process now makes it almost impossible to apply for a position without revealing your transgender status. Even if you have passing privilege or are post-op, if you don’t disclose upfront, it can be grounds for dismissal.
Some fields and workplaces are more tolerant of transgender women, such as more highly educated professions like college professors. However, we still have a long way to go before transgender women can find comfortable, stigma-free places in broader society beyond roles like hairstyling, dental hygiene, or cabaret performance. In those areas I mentioned, being transgender is more accepted and less stigmatized.
The struggle continues, but awareness and acceptance are slowly growing, giving hope for a more inclusive future.
END OF PART 1
All the photos: courtesy of Dawn Flynn.
© 2014 - Monika Kowalska
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